Merge Neuron(s) function

Thanks ajismyid, I just merged the two neurons just now, however I didn’t found the unclaimed maturity show up on the destination neuron, and the source neuron disappeared. It’s a bit weird. I’m pretty sure the unclaimed maturity is not a very small number, so I couldn’t miss it if it’s merged.

Hello! I am really confronted with the problem of merging two neurons that both belong to the community fund. I have such a need and I am very much looking forward to solve it. It is not completely clear to me now why it may present some difficulty. Could you please clarify this situation for me and tell me about further plans on this issue?

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Your basically screwed if you joined the community fund.

You wil not be able to merge any neurons. No further explanation.

Apologies in the name of Dfinity, someone needs to say it.

Greatings

Wouldn’t one be able to “unjoin” the community fund at some not-so-distant future? @lara, @jwiegley ?

I’m not sure that unjoining will ever be possible, as they represent “committed funds”.

Merging of community fund neurons is disabled currently because we don’t fully know how they will operate. For example (this is not planned, just an example): Imagine that a community fund neuron supports an SNS by providing its stake as liquidity to an AMM pool for the dissolve duration of the neuron. This would represent a stable source of funding for that pool, tied to the neuron. What would it mean, then, for the neuron to be merged into another? Would the pool lose that funding? Would the merged neuron be drawn into the pool? Etc.

There are still too many unknowns, until the feature is more fully worked out.

This is what @lara said 27d ago…hence i am surprised that now we are saying “no unjoin”.

Additionally @lara said that having that flag on a neuron “does not have any effect” on the neuron…clearly currently a community fund cannot be merged… I am not exactly sure why/how these communication gaps exists. I think having a named product manager(who speaks authoratively for the feature) for each major functionality would help tremendously.

Note that it may be that all current community fund allocations will be reset — which is what I believe @lara was referring to — but this will be a one-time event. She and I speak often, but the landscape changes week to week. We’re both trying to give you the most up-to-date information that we have at any given point in time.

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Thanks, john. I am not sure who shapes the “envelope” around community funds. As you are aware, this join-the-community-fund button was introduced in December 2021, the first tweet around this was in September 2021 by Dominic.

This uncertainty causes issues for folks who have inadvertently clicked the join-the-community-fund button.

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Hi all,
right, as @jwiegley pointed out I don’t think we were contradicting each other.
We promised that everyone who joined the community fund now has the opportunity to disable this again before the feature is enabled.
After the feature is really in effect it might be that this is a one-way feature (you can join the fund but not un-join), this will have to be worked out with the final design that will surely be shared with the community.

Probably I was a bit too imprecise when I stated that the flag “does not have any effect”. Sorry if this caused confusion. As you rightly pointed out it is not possible to merge these neurons. However, you can still vote with the neuron and get rewards as with any other neuron (you just have to manage it separately).
I hope this adds some clarity. Please let us know if you have more questions!

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How about we start a vote on NNS this week to reset all community fund neurons?

This is very useful for those who cannot merge their neurons. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Maybe give me 1-2 days to think about the possibilities and what would be easiest?
If the main concern is that the neurons cannot be merged, another option might be to just remove this restriction from the merge_neuron functionality… But I prefer to think a bit more about the consequences of each choice with the team.

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And also remove the "join crowd funding " button; which is the source of this conundrum.

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Hi all, so we thought about this a little more and think that an easily implementable fix for this would be to remove the restriction in merge_neuron that does not allow community fund neurons to be merged.
This would mean that a community fund neuron could be merged with any other neuron, in particular it could also be merged into a non-community fund neuron.

Note that we are also working on a clearer design for the community fund and will of course share news with you one we have a more fleshed out design!

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The track record of the promise of community fund detailed design has been not too promising. The community has been asking about the details of the community fund for MONTHS in this forum on multiple topics.

The Join Community Fund button should never have been introduced if the user doesnt know , at all, what joining the community fund means.

Accordingly we SHOULD remove the Join Community Fund button till the design is clear; so that it doesnt trap unwitting users.

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This is a good idea and solves the problem of merging community fund neurons. Voting on this can start. Everyone should be able to decide for themselves.

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Let me maybe try to provide a bit of explanation: One of the reasons we haven’t been making quick progress on the community fund design is that the NNS team is very focused and working on shipping the SNS features. As you see on our roadmap the SNS is planned to be released before the community fund. This also makes sense as the community fund is building on the SNSs to some extent (e.g., the community fund can be invested in SNSs).
I know that this does not fully address your concern, but maybe it can shed some light on our thinking.

This being said, we do actually make progress on the design (I was just participating a meeting yesterday) so I really hope we can share some ideas in the next few weeks.

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Thanks @lara for your explanation. Let me clarify my position.

A. I believe that community funding will be a very good feature when implemented based on tweets from Dom, a medium article referencing Lomesh and several other tweets from others.

B. I do think that the team is working hard in churning out features that are higher priority than community funding and in certain cases the community funding is dependent on these features.

Now, the facts:

(i) join-the-community fund button appeared in NOV 2021.
(ii) Till now (MAY 2022) , we have none of the details about what the joining the community fund would entail. Would it even be legal in certain jurisdictions without passing the Hewey test? Would it expose the participants to undue loss?
(iii) Others have inadvertently joined the community fund by mistake.

Clear questions:

Q1. My issue is that join-the-community-fund button was ill-concieved at the time(NOV 2021) of it’s appearance on the UI and it still remains so. Would you agree to that?

Q2: If so, why should we not have a governance proposal that removes that button from the UI so that it does not ensnare future “clickers”?

Q3. What are the advantages(if any) of having a join-the-community-fund button if NO ONE can even tell us what joining-the-community-fund will do in very specific terms for the risk-reward envelope?

Q4. Why not remove the join-the-community-fund button, cone back with the design and THEN enable this button again?

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The best fix is to let people reverse the community fund.
It’s outrageous how people got tricked into this.
Why taking the restrictions away if people want to exit?
In which sentence this looks okéy for you or the team?
This is just another way to let them be stuck into this outrageous community fund.
You basically took every hope away for those who are stuck in this and payed a lots of money for those tokens.
Outrageous, i demand a revert option asap.
No more bullshit, get it over with and let people exit that community fund that is clearly not up to date and shouldn’t have been released in the first place.
Al the rest is exuzes to let people be scammed in this outrageous community fund.

You state that the team is “very focused and working on shipping the SNS”, THAT THIS IS THE REASON THEIR IS NO TIME FOR THE COMMUNITY FUND. BUT FOR RELEASING THAT COMMUNITY BUTTON THEIR WAS TIME ENOUGH?! WHERE IS THE LOGIC?!
AGAIN OUTRAGEOUS.

Else this needs to go in debate for court in my opinion. Can’t believe the way everything went can be approved by any judge.
Do the right thing or get sued for this. The END!

I share your frustratition and, unfortunately, more and more people are getting frustrated with the direction IC goes. We all understand this is the best blockchain technology. The problem is everywhere else.
I started investing in June 2021 after they announced Endorphin on Medium. Remember Endorphin? That was this incredible phone OS system.
Then, there was Badlands
Then, people’s party
Then, community funds
Then, last summer, staking was a passive investment. Now it is a governance token.
Then, the best of all, a TAX evasion system with price modulation where 100ˋs of millions of $ would evade Taxes with a simple price modulation system.
I am very confident this Tax Evasion system will be the first to come out before everything else on this list. Good chances before the community fund button removal.
This is how I, and many other people are seeing Dfinity now. This is sad but have no choice… 8 years locked.
Hope post like this one will make Dfinity thinking more about how they manage in general. Stop announcing things that are not happening (or happening very soon) and stop to be a tax evasion developper.

Still, the greatest blockchain of all time. Really impressed with the tech and all the programmers working on it.

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I refuse to accept the status quo; if it needs to be changed.

I am giving the community including the conversational leads @lara and @jwiegley from dfinity for their alternate perspectives to see if they can convince the community; prior to creating a governance proposal.

While i am fairly certain that dfinity will be working on their own priorities for now, we can change minds by perservance.

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