I will invite you to do your due dilligent, setup a call with me to find out more detail. Your quote of 60-70K AI developer as “rediculous” stat, just means that you have not seen this doesn’t mean it is not exist.
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Please read through my earlier reply, I have lay out the strategic reason about our team decided to join ICP community and clear vision of what we going to do together with ICP. As a co-founder and key designer of business model and strategic development for EMC, I have invest significant time on meeting up with ICP Global leadership team as well as key investors of ICP and KOLs in Asia community. Doing an SNS launched is strategic decision, alongside we are also doing VC rounds speaking with reputable Web3 VCs. To comment that our team is not technically qualified in regards of ICP, I would rather take the words from Sam and ICP Global R&D team.
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As experienced EVM developers, we are indeed in the process of relearning when it comes to ICP. Despite our previous expertise, ICP presents its own unique learning curve and challenges. However, we are fully committed to embracing this new technology and ecosystem. We recognize the value and potential of ICP and are dedicated to honing our skills and knowledge to contribute effectively to its development.
In many aspects, our understanding of ICP may not be comprehensive, and we are constantly engaging in discussions with the DFINITY Foundation team and community developers.
As you know, the Web3 space is relatively small market (compared to Web2). Our goal is to bring more Web2 developers and users into Web3 through AGI & AIGC, rather than creating a hierarchical Web3 community!
Personally, I studied cryptography at Bristol and have translated numerous articles on Bitcoin and Ethereum. I have also been involved in projects like Status, BanklessDAO, all of which are dedicated to building a global and open community.
Vitalik has faced mockery from Bitcoin Core, and ICP has been misunderstood by the outside world. Even today, Bitcoin and Web3 are still considered scams by a large part of the world.
However, as true believers in blockchain, in the past years of working in blockchain industry, we have often encountered a lack of understanding from friends and even family members. Only we know that we are creating a new world. We are builders, not speculators.
I want my child to live in a truly secure digital world built on blockchain technology and not be labeled as fraudsters by outsiders.
EMC has already released the API documentation for the first Openverse framework based on edge computing protocols (Stable Diffusion model) and deployed it within Canisters. Three teams have already started migrating their projects with over 150,000 users based on this framework. Internet Computer Loading
We are also working towards releasing consumer-facing demos to showcase the capabilities of EMC and the framework.
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I think the major feedback here is that you have an interesting idea, but validate it first without the SNS.
The SNS is mainly for slightly more mature apps with traction and users, not a proof of concept. You’ll get resistance from the community if you try to SNS too early on. Come back with a product that is working, already adding significant value, and is ready for decentralization.
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I would actually recommend this meeting. @justmythoughts is a talented developer and active participant in ICP governance and I would definitely trust what he has to say. He is fair and civilized when he asks tough questions. If he is willing/able to meet, then I’m sure it would be a productive conversation.
I.look forward to learning more from the EMC team in the coming weeks. Thanks for starting the conversation now.
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@EMCprotocol is not a scam. It’s a legit startup founded by a group of very experienced tech entrepreneurs from China. Members of the current IC community may or may not understand or agree with the way EMC team articulates their vision. That’s all fine and I think the EMC team is open for suggestions and discussions. As @MillionMiles of 8yeargangDAO said, we in the IC community should extend open arms to welcome new players to embrace IC, not to trash them.
While it’s reasonable to perform your own due diligence on an IC project, let me share a few notes about the particular situation in China:
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China has about 7 million developers vs 24 million in the rest of the world. China has the second most number of unicorns in the world after US and is quickly catching up (say, ByteDance). Most of those developers or tech entrepreneurs are NOT on Twitter. Though Twitter seems like the way of life for crypto folks and the only place that matters to prove someone’s presence in crypto, it is not for Chinese. Every popular social media platform, from Facebook, Youtube, Google, Instagram, Reddit, Medium, Discord and Twitter is banned in China. It’s entirely possible that a famous KOL of millions of fans in China only has a puny presence on Twitter. According to Statista, WeChat is now a top 5 social media global platform with 1.3 billion MAU and Twitter is No. 14 with 556 million MAU. I’m not trying to back up any specific number from EMC for them but merely saying that there is a much bigger parallel universe out there beyond the usual Twitter/DFINITY Dev Forum/Discord etc. ICP is uniquely positioned to attract developers from that parallel universe (which has been dominated by Tencent, Alibaba, Baidu, Huawei and ByteDance) and EMC is now trying to bridge to that crowd with its integration to ICP.
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The entire crypto industry is pretty tiny compared to the traditional Web2 space. ICP, if viewed as a decentralized AWS, is the only blockchain that can speak to literally millions of developers who are used to building on AWS/Azure/GCP in kubernetes (and every self-respectable developer is now toying with chatGPT/AIGC). Right now, there is no elegant solution for the crypto industry to reach out to this much bigger cohort, for a variety of reasons that Signal’s founder Moxie laid out in his famous “My First Impression of Web3” article in Jan 2022. I’d encourage members of the IC community to be more open-minded and try to help the new kid on the block. Yes, they’re new, but isn’t that what we’re trying to do here, to bring in new blood who shares our vision and audacity? We should cheer for someone who just created an account on this forum recently, not to make that a liability for them.
With this out of way, please go back to your suggestions and feedback to the EMC team on how they can present themselves better in the IC community, engage the community, and earn that trust. Thank you.
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Thank you for this post Herbert! I agree with you 100% and hope that more people start speaking up in this way. I’d rather see the community offering more support and less criticism to project teams.
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Is Dfinity seriously trying to give money to them? The GitHub is empty!!!
I can understand the desperation to jump on the AI train, but this is not it.
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Hello, I am a co-founder of EMC. Thank you for your rational response. The EMC whitepaper was based on my 10+ years of financial investment and technology background, and went through more than 20 revisions before the final draft. I have personally read over 200 project whitepapers, and I believe that a mature investor can easily discern whether a whitepaper has been ghostwritten. Spending tens of thousands of dollars cannot produce the entire architecture of EMC (if there were such skilled writers, they could easily do their own projects). I have discussed potential issues with over 30 well-known VC partners in person, and have addressed each challenge one by one. If you check Twitter, you will find historical recordings of various AMAs (some in Chinese) that were viewed by up to 10,000 people. These data are all real and valid, including Twitter, Discord, etc. EMC has never wasted money on buying bot farms. In fact, it is easy to tell by just clicking on some of the followers’ accounts. The EMC team is a very complete organizational structure, with partners including a CFO of a US-listed company, a partner of a well-known law firm, and a founder of a listed company. If you are interested later, we will make public the backgrounds of all partners. The reason why these social media platforms were established not long ago is due to some special reasons in China. However, it is not difficult to achieve rapid growth with good content operations in China. One of the apps operated by an EMC enterprise in China has over 80 million downloads, which can be checked in China’s application market. We hope to help these web2 users enter web3, and choosing ICP was a carefully considered decision. This is because when designing the entire architecture of EMC, we had to meet the following two requirements:
- Because AI applications need to lead a large number of web2 users, no gas is the first factor.
- Because EMC’s state machine needs to roll up to the main chain with a data peak of 1M/s, the cost-effectiveness requirement for the main chain is very high. In the early stages, we compared almost all public chains, including ETH, Solana, Cosmos Hub, Polkadot, etc., and found that ICP was the most suitable.
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EMC will synchronize the code to GitHub before SNS. Please be patient and do not jump to conclusions.
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In addition, initially we named the project KSANA and positioned it as a social metaverse. We also launched a decentralized computing power project internally with the development code name E = mc². Before the launch, we decided to change the name to EMC as everyone felt that Edge Matrix Computing Network was a fitting abbreviation. This is also one of the reasons why the domain name and social media registration time were too short. If you are interested, you can check ksana.io.
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Zed,
I am not relevant as a voter, but my impression is that the project is not live on IC yet.
I would strongly advise to execute the project, confirm it’s viable, get some traction showing the business is also economically viable.
THEN a sale can happen, where there is a transfer of money from the side of Community, and a transfer of assets (the canisters that are controlling an ecosystem and generating revenue) to the community.
Asking it too soon is a bad deal for the community, it’s understandable they react negatively. They are not being against the project, just feeling it’s too soon.
Could you be open to give a try first with your own token, and then later, imagine 6 or 12 months from now, consider doing the SNS sale with an airdrop to the owners of the first coin? You can pretty much replace it at the time. That way you will have numbers and substantial assets to transfer on the sale, think that would succeed.
And until then, we are all here to contribute and help growing the project.
Let me know your thoughts, and thanks for choosing the IC to work with in your venture.
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I haven’t seen any benefits that EMC has brought to the ICP ecosystem. Is EMC only financing through SNS?
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Thank you for your suggestion. EMC needs the help of the community. In fact, the team has been receiving technical assistance in IC in recent months, and we would like to thank Paulliu for his help. We have set up a complete ICP test network and deployed IC Canister contracts on the test network. In the next few days, we will switch the contracts to the ICP mainnet. I know that the beginning is always difficult, and it is normal to have many doubts before seeing the code running. The entire EMC team will handle these doubts rationally and answer them carefully. However, I also have to say responsibly that we have founded and managed several large enterprises, and we are confident in our ability to control resources and manage development. In the coming time, we will let the community see the speed of EMC’s project.
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Just a bit clarification before this gets misinterpreted: it is a single node running off dfx with port mapping, just for testing purposes.
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Your attitude regarding people doing due diligence has become very concerning.
I am starting to wonder why you are so controlling over other governance factors, yet completely silent in this regard - until you feel the need to pitch in from the sidelines and assign negative connotations to people asking questions?
(Responded to wrong post🥰)
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Rather conflicting, on one hand, you say you do not need to learn more about ICP, on the other, you say you are still re-learning.
Regardless, neither of these address any of my concerns, regarding the benefit of doing an SNS now, before a product is live or security audits are done.
It was my impression the SNS is for complete products, not ones still being actively developed.
Like many others, I also reccomend the team to utilize alternative DAO tooling (as it exists, and is possible), deploy main net, showcase value-add to the network, and then re-explore the SNS DAO with a more finalized product down the line.
Will provide a more detailed analysis once I’ve completed my DD on this project. Not trying to discourage the team, I understand we all have to start somewhere when building something new. I appreciate the transparency & professionalism in recent responses.
AI itself is experiencing explosive growth, and I meet 2-3 groups of AGI developers every week, such as AI imaging, AI video, AI podcasts, AI scripts, AI 3D, industry-specific AI models, and more.
All of these rely on computing power. Currently, GPUs are scarce resources, and many small teams cannot afford the high GPU costs for training purposes.
However, the crypto industry accumulated a significant amount of computational power. EMC utilizes intelligent routing algorithms to manage the supply and demand relationship between AI developers and computational power.
The transaction data will be rolled up into IC canisters, bringing tremendous traffic and liquidity to IC and giving rise to a robust AI+Web3 ecosystem.
By matching idle computational power with small and medium-sized AI developers, EMC becomes a green infrastructure.
As for SNS, there isn’t a definitive consensus within the community. However, we have obtained permission from the DFINITY Foundation and maintain close communication regarding the SNS process.
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我觉得emc的观点非常好，有机会出圈，但是你们之前说这周3开始白名单挖矿，一直在延迟。建议你们先把测试网运行起来。然后再sns。
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As a new developer who was involved in EMC a few weeks ago, I was amazed by the fantastic idea that can help developers, such as our team, to launch AI applications with lower costs and earn rewards directly and easily. I have worked with Aliyun clouds for years, so I realize that programmers and AI developers in mainland China are restricted by local and global politics seriously. Although we always worked and studied pretty hard, we needed to face difficulties in fetching members and the risk that may lead to job losses too.
The EMC program indeed relaxes developers in these cases. First, we can access computing power when our projects need to practice new AI models, comparing to the price of Aliyun or AWS. EMC offers us reliable and affordable matrix power too. The most important attraction to us is that EMC also provides a chance, like a gateway, which will lead our team to join the ICP group. These pieces of information and co-workers might encourage more and more Chinese programmers to join EMC & ICP.
In addition, most of the Chinese programmers learned about ICP when they studied in university or college. Plenty of articles from ICP are really popular in China.
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