Please find the attached of CF contribution that was adjusted to 10% at the time of EMC SNS proposal submission.
They didn’t factor it in their decision as stated above.
And unrelated to your comment;
Catalyze did have the sns setup as communicated to the community.
Blaming dfinity to “not hold your hand” for not responding when you want to is wrong in every way.
I setup the catalyze SNS and when dfinity didn’t have the answers / wasn’t responding fast enough, I reached out to the HoN and OC developers, created forum posts, did testing through the sns-testing repo to check behaviour, etc.
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You dodged the 12% question nicely.
The whole point of decentralization is to reduce the cost of trust, and I look forward to communicating openly with you:
- What exactly do you mean by you don’t like the way EMC is presented, and what can we do to improve it?
2.EMC has signed some business cooperation MOU in May, and also invited the partners to participate in the AMA together, elaborating on the cooperation between the two sides and the profit model, I know it is not possible for everyone to go to the AMA recordings to listen to all the time, but for a project to vote, do some work to understand it beforehand, which is the meaning of participation in the governance, otherwise why do we need to go to the centralized governance?
It appears DFINITY are very careful not to preempt IC community review and discussion of SNS proposals.
To be clear, it is the EMC team’s responsibility to ensure the SNS DAO configuration is correct and consistent with their IC NNS proposal description and tokenomics worksheet.
The EMC project team have since committed to correcting the inconsistencies identified by DFINITY team and then resubmitting their SNS proposal
Nothing to dodge, it’s public data. Eventually it was a risk that we were willing to take.
If the community didn’t like what we requested from the neuron fund they would have voted it down. And we already had most “yes” votes without the one from the dfinity foundation 
We are having these discussions not to argue about who is right or wrong, but to improve the entire process, making it easier and clearer for future project teams to understand key indicators and aspects, rather than feeling overwhelmed and uncertain throughout the process. Here, I lean more towards DFINITY playing a crucial role, rather than merely being a high and mighty judge.
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It is the responsibility of the EMC team for not fully understanding the parameters of the SNS, which led to an error in filling it out, and we will carefully check to make sure we don’t make a mistake on the next submission.
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I still don’t understand what is being decentralized. Seems like it is more about raising funds than anything else. Correct me if I am wrong but the keys to the routing GPU network is still on the machines of EMC?
Also there should be a clear form that we can read as the community that follows guidelines set by Dfinity. Making up rules as we go is great but they should be part of some form teams fill out and then is shared with everyone in the community. I understand standards change but they should be public and maybe even approved by the community when changes are made to that form/guidelines for SNS so we have a clear history to changes.
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The EMC network is a very complex system with multiple players involved, the GPU provider (miner) owns the ownership of the GPUs, and of course the private keys of the GPU network nodes, each POC verification requires a private key signature, so the private key is encrypted and stored on the node. Miners first need to register the nodes to the EMC network, this is done through the ICP wallet, so for miners, the node private key and the wallet private key are two things. Users who need to subscribe to node arithmetic or buy a model at the EMC hub also need the ICP wallet signature, so why is this not decentralized?
EMC has long made all the information public, white papers, economic systems, open source code, dashboard, model libraries, demos, test arithmetic, roadmap, and even commercial progress (AMA), you can see everything when you enter from the edgematrix.pro, so why is it always criticized for not being transparent? Is it our responsibility not to see it? Then you can also go to twitter and listen to the AMA recordings many times before, the information is all there, but people don’t read it and only write subjective judgments on the forum.
Why not have an audit if this is true? I mean you expect investors, many of which are not technical, and even if technical to spend their time reviewing code? If you do say that you hold no keys I would like an audit to be done to see if that is indeed the case. And the expectation to have everyone review code in languages that they might or might not know is not reasonable. At the same time I think this is a problem with all projects. However, this one is even more complex since the network is a mix between your own and ICP.
This isn’t an issue with your project. I would expect some process to happen within ICP to really not fly blind as more projects SNS.
I would also like the network to have a social eng white hack to see if someone can get enough social credit to SNS with minimal effort. I don’t think that has been done. However, social hacks are the most popular among hackers since humans don’t like conflict. I mean didn’t the FTX guy rug pull billions among investors. I mean there has been many more on ETH and such but it does show that social eng hacks are very common. Not saying you are that but would be nice if we had some mech of defense against it.
Congratulations (genuinely) for getting it right first time and for finding help from independent teams with prior experience successfully launching an SNS.
But remember who assisted the OpenChat team with their their SNS launch proposals? IIRC the DFINITY team were closely involved helping them launch as there were no prior projects with experience of doing an SNS (except SNS-1 which was DFINITY… doing it for themselves… standing on their own two feet…etc). Maybe EMC should have reached out to other successful project teams for advice and support rather than to DFINITY but that hardly seems clear in advance.
I understand why DFINITY team members and the foundation itself doesn’t contribute to these SNS discussions or help behind the scenes even though they are a major contributor to the IC. They are damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-dont because their genuine intentions are too often misreprented by unsupported accusations of favouritism or ill-intent.
But that doesn’t make their silence golden. The wider IC community and these SNS discussions in particular are the poorer for their absence.
In place of their interaction during the SNS process (until near the end) we need three things (at least):
- Clear and consistent guidance about the parameters and purpose of the SNS DAO for projects, provided unambiguously and in-advance;
- Community support and goodwill towards projects in the process of an SNS launch, even while critique and hard questions are asked and answers are expected;
- Shared responsibility for the future of the Internet Computer ecosystem and it’s public reputation as a robust and welcoming community where teams and individuals supported if they share our common purpose.
To be clear I am not saying these things don’t exist, I see a lot of it in the genuine questions asked, challenges made and answers given and effort put into deep-dive project analyses. But there is also a lot of ego-contests, watch-you-sink-or-swim, point-and-cry-scam, prove-it-to-me-or-else, my-idea-is-better-than-your-idea and many other destructive attitudes on display here, in public.
And I am not asking us to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. The tough questions and expectations of high standards on code and operations for SNS proposals are really important. The Internet Computer is a young platform and ecosystem with huge ambitions and goals to be achieved. The self-selected people and projects who are here now and soon will be the core of it’s future success. But that success is not guaranteed and frankly may be in the balance unless we work together and support each other while also keeping each other honest and setting high standards of operations and behaviour.
If we want to be the best worldwide decentralised public digital economy then we will have to work better together in public than the incumbent centralised platforms do, who hide their politics and power-plays behind polished corporate walls. And if we are handicapped by the absence of DFINITY team members being unable to freely engage in these critical discussions because of our internal politics and lack of shared purpose, well that makes the goal a whole lot harder to achieve.
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We’ve consulted with a number of auditing firms before, and they usually prefer to service code for EVM architectures, and only one was willing to quote up to tens of thousands of dollars for smart contracts for IC. At this stage, we are updating the code every day, it’s not economical to go for auditing, and the biggest role of auditing is for DEX, Defi type of security defense, EMC is focusing on AI applications, auditing doesn’t help the community to know whether EMC is working or not, the best way to do it is to go and run a node and plug in the AI model and run it for a little while, which is not that hard.
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EMC bots their Twitter Spaces
Look at their views on their Twitter Profile & number of users listening in.
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So EMC is basically a decentralized version of GPU hosting companies like CoreWeave/Applied Digital Corporation?
My understanding, CoreWeave is GPU Cloud, but not decentralized
Your insights are so pathetic and barren that anything beyond your perception is cheating
Okay, please enlighten me on how you manage to pull off these numbers without bots.
You’re views on your tweets highly suggest that you bot your listeners. Your analytics would be MUCH higher.
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Why rush toward another proposal? Your project failed the proposal, and you should go back to the board and build and come back. Maybe the sentiments will change. It looks like you are rushing, and it almost looks like your project will fail without SNS.
If SNS is the only way for you to become successful, I doubt your future. Underestimating the strength of a community can be a mistake. Do the proposal after 6 months with more progress on your project. If it’s that much advanced and once in a life time opportunity, we will be here to invest. It looks like now you are just rushing towards $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$