Technical Working Group: Node Providers

Roadmap
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Hi all, we would like to announce a new technical working group:

Topic: IC Node Providers

DFINITY lead: @SvenF

Coordinator: @SvenF @louisevelayo @katiep

Communication Channel: Element and Forum

Meeting Notes: Gdrive, link will be provided

Cadence: Monthly on 3rd Tuesday of every month at 5:30pm CET

First meeting: May 15, 2024 at 14:15pm CET

The Internet Computer stands out as a blockchain, owing a part of its uniqueness to the infrastructure powering it. Node Providers play a crucial role in provisioning, scaling, and upholding this infrastructure, ensuring its reliability for ICP developers and users. The establishment of this working group signifies the community’s support toward discussing reliability engineering of the IC network and addressing broader Node Provider related topics.

Recognizing the shared tasks and interests among node providers, collaboration becomes imperative. By fostering collaboration, the group aims to:

  • Discuss reliability engineering of the IC network in general and what tasks can potentially be further decentralized.
  • Exchange best practices and improve operational efficiency
  • Address common challenges and improve business continuity
  • Improve the Node Provider experience and long term business case
  • Practical application of verification of node data
  • Explore how Node Providers can stimulate and support the utilization of the IC network

The list above represents an initial compilation of focus areas, crafted from interviews with a small sample of Node Providers. Keep in mind that this scope is flexible and can be adapted. The goal of presenting this list is to underscore that the Node Provider working group isn’t solely centered on technical matters like decentralizing elements of reliability engineering. While immediate action can already be taken there, this working group also embraces strategic and entrepreneurial endeavors aimed at securing the long term viability of the node infrastructure running ICP.

This working group acts as the initial catalyst to activate the node provider community. Its primary objective is to create a collaborative space where node providers, and other community members passionate about the topics related to Node Providers, can come together. Here, they can freely exchange insights, tackle common challenges, and collectively work towards solutions, all while upholding the fundamental principles of decentralization.

Please note that the working group is solely for collaboration and discussion purposes. Any actions or proposals agreed upon by the working group will be formally submitted as NNS proposals to the broader IC community.

The first working group will take place during the IC Lab for Node Providers on May 15th at the Dfinity Zurich office. The session will be streamed live where online participants can interact via the chat. There will also be a dedicated chat monitor. This is only for the first meeting - the following meetings will happen completely online

If you have any suggestions regarding key topics that should be addressed by the working group, please feel free to leave a reply in this forum thread.

Special thanks to @katiep for planting the seed of this idea, and to @louisevelayo for doing the work to drive this concept into reality. Additionally, thank you to the Node Providers who participated in the interviews, as their insights played a crucial role in shaping the initial vision for the working group.

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This is a welcome and important initiative for both the Node Provider and the wider IC community.
Thanks to @louisevelayo @SvenF @katiep and any else involved in making this a reality.

I propose that operational security be added as an important topic for discussion.
There are many aspects to the topic of security, both technical and non-technical, as it relates to IC server nodes and the node providers who own and operate them. I know from reading this forum and social media that there is significant and understandable concerns about how private and confidential data on the IC is protected by, and from, node providers.

As custodians of the physical infrastructure that supports the whole IC ecosystem, node providers are equally concerned with these security concerns and should be involved in pushing for security enhancements. This includes vetKeys in production and especially Secure Enclave/Trusted Execution Environment technology which would (almost) guarantee that IC replica data cannot be accessed by anyone with physical access to the server hardware. There are other equally important and effective technical measures we could deploy to guarantee the safety of data on the IC platform.

Many other blockchains rely on large numbers of anonymous, unverified replica node providers of varying quality to secure their blockchain data integrity. The Internet Computer is quite different. It relies on high quality server hardware, datacentre environments and operating system management to create a high-performance, cryptographically secured, globally distributed, decentralized World Computer without peer.
As IC Node Providers we have both the responsibility and incentives to operate openly and transparently for the benefit of the IC ecosystem. Working as a group in public to provide and promote ongoing verification of the security of IC subnets should be one of our goals here.

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Thats a great initiative. I am pretty sure it will bring the infrastructure provider much closer to share challenges and possible solutions to achieve a truly decentralize world computer. Great work @SvenF @katiep @louisevelayo

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Hi I have a question… how close are we to Gen 3 specs coming out? I’m about to spend a lot of money for a Gen 2 spec’d machine and be locked into a 2yr data center contract and I don’t want my machine to be outdated in a year from now. Is it safe for me to go ahead… will it still be accepted as a valid node on the network 2yrs from now? TIA

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IMG_7474
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I also have this same question. I had priced out a box, and the hardware in duplicate a while ago using this list.
I would like to know how long this will be valid.
I was also wondering how dfinity et Al would feel about something like Bare Metal for node providing assuming the sla was iron clad.

I am extremely interested in becoming a node provider when the topography allows and am quite flexible in location and structure.

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Heh Henry… what kind of price did the give you for that setup? Mine was a Dell PowerEdge R7525 for like 22k with a 7313 cpu but thinking of a 7413. What do I do with a 22k server if ICP ups the specs and my node gets kicked off the network before I get a return on my investment? I think we need a more detailed plan when it comes to servers. Like Gen 2 good from 2022 to end of 2024 and Gen 3 good from 2025 to end of 2027 etc etc at least this way node providers know up front when they have to upgrade and/or when to wait to purchase a new server. To cover their costs node providers need to be able to maximize the lifespan of their machine so having set dates is really paramount… “and for that reason… I’m out”… till that is in place.

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Hi Node Providers,

What a fantastic week it has been! On behalf of the Aviate Labs / Allusion Team and everyone from DFINITY, we sincerely enjoyed meeting all of you and appreciated your high levels of engagement!

To officially wrap up the week, I wanted to share a few resources with you:

1/ Slide Decks

2/ Recordings

3/ Getting in touch with ICP Hubs

All ICP hubs are on OpenChat. If you would like to get into this OpenChat community, please fill in the following form before the end of next week (24/05). You need to make sure that you have an open chat account, and that your notifications are enabled!

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What about something like bare metal?

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Hi everyone,

Please find the meeting minutes from the first Node Provider Working Group meeting here. These notes also include notes from the morning session (strategic outlook), as some insights are particularly relevant to the working group.

Keep in mind that these are minutes, so the tone of voice may not be perfectly captured.

I welcome any feedback on the structure of the minutes document.

More to follow on the general organization of the working group such as the next meeting, tracking work items etc.

Thanks and have a great weekend!

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Hi everyone :wave:

Based on the outcome of the ICP lab, theres are a range of topics that this working group can pick up. I am thinking of the following approach:

  • One main working group that meets monthly that gets updates from Special Interest Groups (SIGs)
  • SIGs break out of the main working group - they should have a clear and defined scope and they can decide how often they meet independent of the main working group.

As for the next steps. I’m thinking to proceed with the following:

  • Forum Post: Share a list of topics with brief descriptions and background information (slides/previous forum posts etc.).
  • Voting: You can vote on the most important/urgent topics from that list and indicate which topics you would like to work on.
  • Analysis: I will identify the SIGs that can be formed based on the topics that were voted as the most important/urgent, combined with which ones have an adequate number of people indicating that they would like to work on that topic.
  • Next WG Meeting: Allocate participants to these topics, with the goal of defining the problem statement (Why, What, How), what resources are needed etc.

Expect that list of topics and voting form soon! Just wanted to share this approach with you all already. If you have any thoughts or feedback, feel free to share in the newly created matrix channel for working group discussion!

Thanks for reading :pray:

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Hi all,

As part of our next steps, I’m happy to share that the list of topics are now available for you to vote on here.

I highly recommend reviewing the background material, as I’ve intentionally avoided defining each topic. This way, each participant in the first working group meeting can take ownership and define the scope, timeline, and other details.

Additionally, you can vote on which moment during the week of June 17th works best for our first NP WG meeting. Based on the selected day and time, future meetings will be held on the 3rd (insert day with most votes from meeting poll) of every month at that time.

If you encounter any issues with the links, please don’t hesitate to ping me directly in the NP WG Matrix channel.

Let’s try to get all the votes in by Monday 03/06?

Thanks for your time :pray:

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Hi all,

I’m happy to share the next date for the NP WG meeting. Please find the details below:

NP WG meeting
Monday, 17 June · 5:00 – 6:00pm
Time zone: Europe/Brussels
Google Meet joining info
Video call link: https://meet.google.com/orb-twmw-sui
Or dial: ‪(BE) +32 2 896 36 59‬ PIN: ‪915 514 496‬#
More phone numbers: https://tel.meet/orb-twmw-sui?pin=4434956900058

Thank you all for filling in the form with the list of topics! I will be going through the feedback from the forms this week(end) and will share a rough agenda some time next week :saluting_face:

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask via the NP WG Matrix Channel!

:wave:

Update
You can find the agenda for the next WG meeting here :blush:

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Hi everyone,

Thanks for joining the NP WG meeting today, it was great to see you all!

In this folder, you can find the minutes and a recording of the meeting (disclaimer: at one point we went into breakout rooms and apparently google meets doesn’t record these).

Here are the details for the next NP WG Meeting
Node Provider Working Group
Monday, 15 July · 4:00 – 5:00pm
Time zone: Europe/Brussels
Google Meet joining info
Video call link: https://meet.google.com/kdq-ojkt-ivm
Or dial: ‪(BE) +32 2 896 38 29‬ PIN: ‪494 117 949‬#
More phone numbers: https://tel.meet/kdq-ojkt-ivm?pin=5120713951012

I will take some time to go through the notes from this meeting, and then share an agenda for the next one with you all soon! :blush: :wave:

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Hi, Louise,

Just wondering there is an intention to record the meeting? if so and its not working on google meetings why do we use another meeting app? sorry just trying to get a grasp about what’s going on.

Cheers!

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Hi @ThiagoS-Amaral,

Thanks for your message. Indeed, the meetings are recorded. In my last post, I included a link to the folder where the recording should be available. Please let me know if there are any issues with access!

In this folder , you can find the minutes and a recording of the meeting (disclaimer: at one point we went into breakout rooms and apparently google meets doesn’t record these).

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Hi community!

In preparation for the next NP WG meeting, I would like to share the agenda already. You can find it here.

Please note that this may change slightly, but I thought you may already like to know roughly what is planned.

I would like to request all those planning to attend to review this reading list before the next meeting. This should refresh/give you the background information to help you follow and/or contribute to the discussion during the meeting.

If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to let me know via Matrix.

See you soon :wave:

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Hi all,

Due to low participation in today’s meeting, we’ve decided to postpone the NP WG meeting to next week (July 22).

You can find the meeting details here:

Node Provider Working Group
Monday, 22 July · 4:00 – 5:00pm
Time zone: Europe/Brussels
Google Meet joining info
Video call link: https://meet.google.com/xcj-quvk-pes
Or dial: ‪(BE) +32 2 896 37 02‬ PIN: ‪637 380 579‬#
More phone numbers: https://tel.meet/xcj-quvk-pes?pin=5149083068757

In the meantime, I will work on getting this on a public event calendar so that you can also add it to your agenda.

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Hi all,

You can now add the NP WG meetings to your calendar. Just click here!

For the meeting postponed to next week (22nd July), you can use this link to add it to your agenda.

Have a great weekend!

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Hello community,

Thank you all for joining today’s meeting! You can access the meeting recording, the meeting minutes and the presentation slides here.

Next Steps Before Our Next Meeting (19th August): Participate in the Paper Exercise

Gather information about your data center, below are a couple of example you could include but are definitely not limited to:

  • Security compliance
  • Tier level
  • Local or international regulatory compliance

Your contributions would be very appreciated for our next working group meeting where we’ll review the information gathered and, based on the feedback, establish a preliminary criteria for data center evaluation.

Additional Resources:

Thank you for your participation. Looking forward to our continued collaboration :rocket:

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Hi everyone,

Just a short reminder that the next Node Provider working group meeting is on Monday at 4pm CET! You can add it to your agenda by clicking here.

Feel free to review the slides for a peak at what we will discuss.

If you plan to participate, please complete the paper exercise described in the previous post, if you haven’t already. This working group meeting will build on those findings, so the more feedback we have, the better!

Thanks and have a great weekend :vulcan_salute:

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