Small UX update related to maturity modulation

As @wpb alluded to, proposals are rewarded 4+ days after they are created, so proposals that you voted on within the past couple of days likely haven’t been rewarded yet.

I’m guessing that for whatever reason you just missed a bunch of proposals when voting manually. Setting up following is a good idea. I would follow the DFINITY Foundation on All Topics Except Governance, and one of the other listed neurons for Governance, such as ICP Maximalist Network or ICDevs.org.

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random question @Jamietier … did you merge any neurons into this neuron? No reason why it should be affected. But i heard someone say that they merged neurons and it affected their voting histpry + maturity. I wanted to see if this was your case or someone else or if its just miscommunication/misunderstanding (trying to get more data and investigate).

Thanks!

Any update or timeline regarding the second question?

I noticed ledger team started working again on the app after a couple months, but judging by past experience it might take months before its ready and available in Ledger Live.

For a proposal that was supposed to incentivize merging maturity, it had the opposite effect for me so far.

No I haven’t merged any neurons into it (other than the maturity).

Will go ahead with the followees and report back on the amount of maturity I accumulate. Thanks for everyone’s help.

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Let me ping someone to see if they know.

A question, now we changed from % to the actual amount earned. But it doesn’t show the little earned amounts. For example neuron recieves 0.08 icp earned daily.
But everything behind the 8 does not appear. For example 0.084848.

For compounding this quite sucks, i don’t see how much extra i get from compounding (merging). Or i really need to take a calculator with me and type the whole amount into the calculator before i start merge and re-calculate afterworths.

I hope you get my point, a change in this for the mergers/compounders would be nice in my opnion.

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Hey budd, I’m a holder since july’21. Never needed an account, until now, when I had to say what you read above. So, keep calm and keep conspiracy theories for yourself. And yes, I probably gor more ICP than you anyway :yum:

Hi, maybe a stupid question, but I believe the calculation of ICP is still in percent. I monitor the maturity every. month and have a nearly equal increase, but this month it looks like the maturity is in percent and not ICP ?

Has anyone else made this observation or I’m completely wrong?

Do you mean when you click inside a neuron in the NNS frontend dapp you still get a %? That would be odd to me. I see a scalar for maturity.

No there is no % sign, but in my own calculation of the ICP reward the ICP value is too low. It seems to me that the displayed value is in percent and not in ICPs, because of the amount. But maybe my calculation are wrong.

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Looks better and giving great user experience. ~ Jozef Behr

Hello Dear team,

I trust you are well.

I have a few questions.

My staking rewards suddenly dropped almost 50 percent ever since the recent representation of maturity change took place.

  1. Why is this happening? I would like a simple answer (not a tech guy) yet informative.
  2. Is it temporary? I am just concerned because ever since I began staking, the staking rewards rate keep changing. It would be great to fix this so we, investors, can have piece of mind. Many of us invested for the long term (8 years) so these changes are really hurting.

Thanks in advance for your quick response. :slight_smile:

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I think there is a valid question here (but potentially not right dev forum thread) @gabobox @rbole

  1. Many people experienced drop in rewards recently. This includes me and almost everyone I know.

  2. The main culprit is NOT the modulation (or UX around it) but the fact that governance proposals no longer get a 20x boost rewards. They now get 1x like all other types of proposals. An over-simplification: some people used to get “extra rewards” relatively speaking… but no longer do.

This post explains why without techno mumbo jumbo: Rewards fell%50 - #6 by diegop

  1. That being said, even with changes… your rewards may still be lower than they should be. This varies from neuron to neuron. I recommend you read this and compare this to your neurons to see if your neuron is getting the maximum rewards it should be getting:
    Rewards fell%50 - #17 by diegop

If you stil get lower rewards than you should, please ping us so we can investigate further!

Does this make sense? Is it helpful?

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Thank you very much for your explanation. :slight_smile: I am happy now.

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Thanks also from my site, that makes things clearer. To wrap up, that I understand it clearly:

If I have a daily rewards (maturity) around 0.31 then it I should receive in a month (30*0.31) 9,3 ICP on rewards, if I vote on all possible daily votes, right?

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Literally 95% Correct-ish.

Your rewards would hover around 9.3 ICP, but this is where maturity modulation does kick in. When you actually disburse, it could be as low as 95% or as high as 105% of 9.3 ICP. That part is hard to predict until your spawned neuron actually disburses.

Does that make sense? You have all inspired me to write a Wiki page on this based on these questions. So I’m very grateful.

(Given my role, I should be “that guy” and point out to readers that the number “30” used in the post above depends on the days in a month :nerd_face:. Fórmula quoted would not work in February)

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Hi, thanks again for those infos.

Sure my formula will work only for months with 30 days. All of these sounds clear and I understand this, but in my case I have a neuron with a daily reward of 0.31 ICPs according to the ICP dashboard.

Maybe I’m completely wrong, but give me a minute to explain my staking strategy.

My strategy is to create every month a new neuron with the rewards of a month and reinvest those ICPs in the original neuron, so the original neuron can grow. I do it like this: split a new neuron, disburse it and increase the original neuron with the received ICPs.

That would mean on the 15th of a month I should have around 15*0.31 = 4,65 ICPs on rewards In my case the NNS app shows a value of 0,85. And this figure looks more than a percent value than a value in ICP, because if you use this number as a percentage and calc the rewards then the result is nearly the same ±.

Thanks again for helping me to understand this metric.

Clarifying question before i answer the rest: This looks a lot like “merging maturity.” If you have neuron A, You can actually merge the maturity from neuron A into itself. Is there a reason why you prefer to spawn and merge, instead? Or am i missing some nuance?

I want to make sure I follow your intent.

No there is no real reason, I started with this procedure and didn’t changed it. Maybe to merge the new neuron into the “main” neuron is a better approach because of the 7 days waiting period.

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I should be open and direct and admit that because of (what I and my accountants) see as the ambiguity of Tax laws in the US and California (where I live), I do not merge maturity (yet), but want to see how IRS treats ICP and maturity in 2022. “Wait and see” is my personal approach, but i know others in Dfinity do merge maturity. I just want you to be aware of options.

I usually do a version of what you originally suggested:

  1. Spawn maturity into neuron
  2. Disburse new neuron
  3. Sell a % of it to pay taxes (and deposit into an account for annual taxes)
  4. Use the remaining ICP to create a neuron I merge into big one

I do this because I am very tax-conservative and want to make sure I always have the money on hand in case IRS takes the most conservative approach to what maturity and ICP is. This varies from country to country or state or personal comfort level as well as personal situation. So I want to be transparent what I usually do (with caveats).

LPT: I always rather pay a bit extra taxes and sleep well at night :sleeping: :nerd_face:

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