I’ve been panicking over this very same topic. My maturity for the last 2 days are nearly identical to yours. I staked with 8 year dissolve delay without starting the dissolve. At first I was super excited about potential for 29% annualized staking/voting rewards, but then I realized that the NNS app shows that the maturity is reported with percent units. If this is true, then the staking returns would be a dismal at 0.29% annualized staking/voting rewards (0.0008% * 365). This would definitely not be worth participating in staking. I submitted a support ticket earlier tonight in hopes of getting clarification from dfinity. If this really is the issue, then they either need to convert the reported maturity value into percent and leave the percent units on the display or they need to leave the number in a unitless ratio and remove the percent unit. I don’t care how it is displayed as long as it is correct. It does not seem likely to be correct at this time. BTW, thank you for spending so much time and effort to research and document this issue.
I tried to “Spawn Neuron” few times, but everytime nnc web app crashed, I am using Safari/iPhone 12, most of the time when I am on single neuron page, app freezes, as soon as voting history is loaded. I simple can not understand that this simple frontend app is faulty in so many ways.
I understand that ic/network needs more polishing but simple app with 4 tabs and few functions to be this faulty that is something that I can not understand.
I just tried to spawn one as well.
From the debug console:
“… There isn’t enough maturity to spawn a new neuron…”
The spawn-neuron button shouldn’t be enabled on the front end yet.
(Full stack developer here willing to help, pretty sure I can fix the front end issues)
I tried to spawn as well and it hung up as you describe. I suspect I haven’t reached the threshold maturity to spawn yet, but I also don’t know what threshold maturity to expect. There definitely seems to be a surprisingly high number of faulty features with the NNS app, but dfinity does seem to be working through them. I agree with Chris’ comment that the spawn neuron button probably shouldn’t be active until the threshold maturity has been reached.
Yes, most definitely a front end bug on allowing the spawn button to be pressed because the back end is responding with a sane response; it wouldn’t make much sense to allow a neuron to be spawned with the parent having only 2 days of maturity.
I think it’s about time for some kind of reply here, …
I’m 99.9% sure that the percent symbol displayed by Neuron ‘maturity’ on the nns.ic0.app UI doesn’t belong or the decimal point needs to be slid over two places to the left.
Please confirm if this is correct or let me know if my assumption is wrong.
Highlighted the easy to follow parts with examples that cannot be misunderstood:
The reward distribution amongst voters is supposed to be calculated daily based on a rate that would be right at 10% for the first year, yet the maturity shows gains closer to 0.10% for the first year…
I can report that my neuron maturity now reads as expected. Last night it read 0.0024052% and this morning it reads 0.2405166%. It appears they have updated the NNS app to show this maturity at a level that makes more sense by moving the decimal place 2 positions to the right and keeping the maturity in percent units. The “spawn neuron” button is also greyed out now, so I cannot initiation that action. That makes sense since my neuron hasn’t reached the maturity threshold (I still don’t know the threshold value).
So it appears that the current annualized returns on ICP staked for 8 years is approx 29% (my neuron has shown maturity growth for 3 days at this time). This is fantastic.
@Ori posted this in telegram
The threshold to spawn is simply the amount of ICP you’d need to create a neuron normally (which is currently around 1 ICP but the NNS can change this). If you have enough maturity to generate this many ICP, then you can spawn.
A bit high imo as most people will stake a few ICP but maybe this will change in time.
That makes sense. Thanks for the insight.
I might be a little confused about the staking rewards. Is the return at 10% of staked icp over the course of a year? If you stake for the maximum 8 year period does that double to 20% return per year? I understand that it decreases percentage wise over the 8 year period to 5% but I’m trying to figure out how daily rewards are calculated. Say I stake 100 icp for 8 years. That then counts towards 200 voting points. Is my first year gains expected to be 20 new icp?
Thanks for any feedback
Kenny
You seem to have the voting power correct based on the 8 year example. There’s also a neuron age component that adds to voting power as well. The actual returns are a bit difficult to explain. There is a planned allocation of rewards that will be divided among people with staked ICP who participate in voting. The amount of the reward depends on several factors, but there is a known amount that is awarded and it is divided among everyone with voting power. Dfinity has published a good description of the rewards calculation at the end of the linked article in Medium. It’s probably best to read that to learn more since it is published by dfinity.
Thank you I appreciate the response. I will read through it and hopefully get a better understanding of the allocation.
See my last comment and pay particular attention to the real-world examples at the end of each section… be sure and actually do the math for those examples in your head to check behind them and you’ll get it.
To answer your question about the 10%, it splits up a reward pool that is around 10 percent (for an entire year) on a daily basis to voters depending on how many proposals they participated in for the day.
It’s important to note that it’s not a steady 10% forever or even any more to be exact as it tapers off to 5% gradually, and the method for its calculation on a daily basis makes a smooth curve, you can see the representation of that curve in the graph I posted. You don’t have to understand the complicated looking formula of how it creates that curve, just that the total reward pool gradually decreases every day until it gets to the equivalent of what would be 5% per year at which point it goes flat… also this may be changed by governance proposals if it isn’t enough to get to the target percent of ICP being staked where they want it.
and again, the other parts to the equation to determine the voting power of your neuron is posted just above, which also directly determines the ratio of the rewards to be added to your neuron as ‘maturity’
Thank you for the reply, I think I am starting to understand how the rewards work.
No prob, let me know if anything is still fuzzy.
I hope I’m not getting too far off topic, I’m pretty new to the crypto space. I am curious about the circulating supply. It appears to be about 26% currently and from reading the articles you guys posted the goal is 10%. They are going to incentivize people to lock up more icp by increasing rewards in order to achieve the 10%? If I’m understanding this correctly the rewards should increase until this is achieved. This also should boost the price as a result of lower circulating supply.
Key point is that’s how they came to and justified the numbers for the reward pool and as far as I know the variables in addition to nearly everything else about the protocol is adjustable through governance proposals.
It would make sense that going forward decisions will be made that are conducive to the projects long term success.
To guess what will happen is a bit speculative for this forum but I’m pretty certain most people who are staked and voting would like the value of their holdings to go up, especially being that if they’re currently voting the earliest they can cash out is 6 months in the future… so in my mind the best way for voters to do that is to make decisions that are good for the long term health of the project.
I am also having trouble removing icp tokens out of the dfinity nns. I had no problem sending them from coinbase to nns but there does not appear to be a send or execute button when transferring tokens back out. Has anyone else had this issue?