DFINITY’s position on community members buying and controlling large stakes in SNS projects

In light of recent events and discussions, DFINITY would like to outline its position on community members buying and controlling large stakes in SNS projects.

Background SNS framework

The Service Nervous Systems (SNS) framework is designed for allowing decentralized governance of dapps. The governance is stake-based: the participants’ voting power is based on the amount of staked tokens and how long these tokens are staked for.

There are two kinds of SNS proposals. A normal proposal is adopted if at least half of the voting power supports it, whereas a critical proposal requires a two-thirds majority of the voting power to pass, increasing the bar for substantial decisions.

Recent events

In recent weeks, some SNS projects experienced significant shifts in governance dynamics, driven by large investors acquiring substantial portions of the token supply and thus voting power.

One factor that enabled this was the relatively low cost of tokens on the open market due to people selling their tokens. This is often correlated with projects not demonstrating significant progress or transparency on milestone achievements, missing the opportunity to form an engaged community, and insufficiently communicating long-term tokenomics or business plans.

Some investors have taken advantage of these conditions to gain enough voting power to influence the projects’ direction more decisively and hold teams accountable. Similar investor behavior is known as “activist investors” in traditional markets.

In some cases this influence has been further amplified by low voting participation among other neuron holders, especially other large investors. For example, in some SNSs few parties could block critical proposals despite holding less than a third of the voting power, because there was insufficient participation from other voters.

DFINITY’s point of view

First, we would like to establish that the SNS technology functions as specified and designed.

As the SNS has a stake-based governance, it is expected that individuals can gain significant influence or determine the outcome of decisions if they buy and stake enough tokens.

Furthermore, investment activities on the free market are legitimate.
It is a sign for a healthy DAO if the community scrutinizes plans and decisions and demands enough transparency to hold the developer team accountable.

We do think that the recent events surface some weaknesses in how the SNS frameworks are currently used and how the DAO communities are engaged in discussions and decisions.

Building a decentralized project requires ongoing efforts to maintain trust and belief in the project’s vision. Teams must consistently demonstrate that the project is evolving and that holding the token remains worthwhile. If excitement fades, participants are more likely to sell their tokens at low prices, weakening the community.

Just as importantly, participants need to be motivated to actively take part in governance. This is especially true for larger investors, who may not track proposals daily and might need to be approached more pro-actively and in advance to participate in important proposals.

Going forward, DFINITY intends to contribute to this aspect by voting more actively in SNSs where the foundation has neurons.

We also want to add that we don’t support the communication style of certain community members that can be perceived as disrespectful and negatively affects the atmosphere in the ecosystem. Whenever this violates forum guidelines, we moderate the forum accordingly and also published an update to the forum guidelines today. While investors are important for the success of the ecosystem, we want to point out that they do not act on behalf of the DFINITY foundation.

Conclusion

We think this is a great opportunity to reflect how SNS communities can be improved going forward - not only from a technical perspective, but especially when it comes to business planning and community engagement. These lessons may help strengthen the ICP ecosystem and result in more resilient, transparent, and thriving DAO communities.

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Love it. Well said :slight_smile:

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Dfinity took steps to mitigate treasury drains.

Why doesn’t dfinity brainstorm to protect daos from hostile take overs?

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We the investors of SNS projects got rekt since genesis,even ICP token itself didn’t give a bread to investors for 4 years.

By the recent event of acquisition of low caps DAO led by a revolutionary whale gives a little relief of the tiny investors like us . Heres a post on X

It’s either bad or good .but for us the long time token holders of SNS tokens can decide to sell or not .

Your SNS has loopholes . That could be manipulated by team themselves, this practices is rampant in crypto space ,but here in ICP the stake is the treasury.

Loopholes: Theoretically

1 . The founders first advocates to investors to follow their neurons (for having majority votes)
2. The founders could intentionally delay the development and cuts communication,for the investors to sell their tokens at lost ,and then they buybacks.
3. No ratio evaluation of the price of the governance tokens equivalent to governance.
4.
Example : ICVC sns it hold 900k plus icp (4M$± in their treasury while the marketcap of their token is only 900k$ . This could cause an imbalance of value and the potential target of the bad actors is the treasury. Given the fact that 51% attack is impossible but the treasury is very vulnerable for HOSTAGE.

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They should implement a buy back mechanism to rebalance the voting power once the price of the governance token dips

What is happening is organic. Strong communities, strong DAOs. Weak communities/corrupt core teams, weak DAOs. Survival of the fittest at work. It is the natural autophagy/cell cleanup of the DAO system amd should be left to play out.

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If this is the stance, then we should remove treasury restrictions under the same premise.

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Agree on all the above points.

I wonder what’s the take of @Leadership , Dfinity Foundation, on implementing a Quadratic Voting system for SNS?

That would solve the issue of Hostile Takeover, and level the governance for the community.

Thank you very much and very best wishes to all! :saluting_face:

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@ermir

Couldnt a quadratic voting system be circumvented by a person having multiple neurons?

You would have to KYC participants to enforce this.

Seems like an overly complicated attempt to control a free market.

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Hey @Leadership

If you want to stop one man taking over, maybe try supporting SNS projects so they can obtain more investors.

Show me a single time you have ever validated ICFC with some kind of supportive post - I’ve only coded non stop for 2 years, employed several people, designed several DAOs and yes, I’ve worked very hard to obtain a gambling license for an SNS token, paving the way for other projects.

You are the problem, not Adam.

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Maybe the option should be added, linear or quadratic voting, when a DAO proposal is put forward to the community?!
Let the community decide what’s best for them! :thinking:

@ermir
Given whats been happening. I thought about this a lot. (And I considered a quadratic voting function also!)

The problem with a quadratic voting function is it punishes honest participants who have 1 neuron in an sns with all of their vp.

It rewards participants who have say dozens, hundreds, or thousands of botted neurons in an sns. This is the unfortunate result, it doesnt accomplish what you intended.

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Couldn’t proof of human be implemented?

Yeah quadratic voting, idea sounds nice on paper. Not sybil resistant.

Maybe there needs to be a Proof of Humanity thing but that could just end up turning into huge arguments and manipulation by narcissistic types.

I think something where nobody can sell the SNS token without milestones being met and agreed upon. The issue is everything that can be gamed will be gamed. Iteration and time is the only answer.

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Yes this was my conclusion quadratic voting would require KYC. But i dont think this is desirable either.

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That’s why I think benevolent dictatorship is the best interim option until a better one is found.

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Agree with a locking mechanism connected to milestone delivery. :100:

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That’s how it starts, benevolent, interim, … :zany_face:

Where can we learn more about you! Any X handle or public profile! Thank you.

So far, just the good words from @jamesbeadle about how supportive you are of the devs pushing their projects forward! :saluting_face:

Remember having someone in charge is how most businesses in the world are run. Maybe a reflection on where and when DAO’s actually bring benefits to projects would be great.

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