While there will be no ALICE in an SNS controlled treasury, all the ICP raised will be controlled by the SNS. Hence, the treasury is subject to all the SNS framework rules (withdrawal limits and time delays and 2/3 super majority proposals). Of course, the SNS can choose to move the ICP treasury off chain, but they would be doing that under the workflow defined for all SNS projects. It will be time consuming just like it is for WaterNeuron.
Any other token that is considered part of the Alice treasury (e.g. BOB) would be tokens that are not originally sourced from this SNS.
Thanks for clarifying Wenzel. Will the AI agent be raising treasury transfer proposals? Just want to confirm how the DAO will be retaining control, while the off-chain AI is calling the shots (sorry, I know I said my prior post was the last - Iād like to understand this bit though)
My simple test for evaluating this proposal was thisāIf I were to participate in this token swap, will I be able to contribute to the core offering of the project?
Iām interpreting the proposal as if ALICE is a working piece of software, and my understanding is ALICEās trading ability is a core offering that is influencing participation.
If I canāt contribute to ALICEās code, then this isnāt the DAO that is being advertised in the proposal.
How did you come to the conclusion that the AI agent will be off chain? I havenāt seen any statements making this claim except from you. The proposal seems to indicate that the Alice AI agent will be on chain and that all updates will be made by SNS vote (the 2 day voting period will be brutal for actively participating voters though). This does not require a vote for every individual trade or position created by the AI agent. Perhaps you saw something that I missed. Please provide a link that shows where it is claimed that the AI agent is off chain.
Itās currently off-chain (else it would be hosted by one or more of the canisters listed for decentralisation). Apparently this is consistent with comments from ALICE on X (though Iāve not read them, there are too many). I take it thereās a promise it will be on-chain in the future.
Until that point, how are the trades going to be executed - or will it not be executing any trades until that point? My concern is that thereāll be a follow up proposal after launch granting an off-chain ALICE control over the swap funds.
Iām simply asking questions, and hoping to pin down answers.
So happy we have move forward with this Aice.ai dfinity should pull out all stops promoting everything and everybody involved with the ai narrative, lets not let other competitive spheres of dubious integrity steal and run with the only ai on chain. Alice will be our canary in the mine! lovingly!
The ALICE decentralization swap will end soon, which means that people will be looking for known neurons to follow with their new ALICE neurons. It was previously announced earlier in this forum thread and in the Bob telegram chat group that CodeGov will have a known neuron for this SNS that people can follow. As soon as the neuron ID is known it will be updated here.
For anyone who is not already aware, when you receive your 2 new neurons after the decentralization swap, one will be unlocked and the other will be locked for 1 day. You are free to disperse your ALICE tokens and do whatever you want with them. If you decide to participate in governance for the ALICE SNS, then you can stake your tokens and set your dissolve delay to anything between 1 day and 3.5 years. Since all tokens are virtually liquid at launch, the governance rewards for staking and voting are likely to be very high. There is a 69% max dissolve delay bonus and a 42% max age bonus (max age is 5.75 years). The reward rate is 6.9% initially and will decrease to 4.2% over 3.5 years.
One of the nice features of SNS governance participation is the concept of liquid democracy. This means you can configure your neuron to follow other neurons so that they will cast your vote on the proposal topics you configure. Since the voting period for non-critical ALICE proposals is only 2 days, you may find that you want to configure a neuron to follow. If you donāt vote, then you donāt earn voting rewards. Hence, if you decide to follow someone else, then you should be confident that they are a credible and reliable Followee. This a goal for the CodeGov ALICE neuron. We want to offer a decentralization option that is known as a credible and reliable Followee option with people who are well known in the Alice SNS.
There are 3 proposal topics that are considered ācriticalā and have special status in the SNS framework. These critical topics have a 5 day voting period and require 2/3 majority to pass. There are also 3 other important topics that should be configured with Followees as well. These are the topics that have a 2 day voting period and only require a 50% majority to pass. It is recommended that you configure known neurons as Followees for all 6 of these topics. If you choose to follow the CodeGov ALICE neuron for these topics, then we will strive to ensure you are maximizing voting rewards and we will do it by voting intelligently on every proposal. Our Followees are asked to vote with their own convictions so the consensus of these Followees will trigger the CodeGov ALICE neuron vote.
Critical Topics:
Topic 9: Transfer SNS Treasury Funds (this is considered a critical proposal topic)
Topic 11: Deregister dapp canisters (this is considered a critical proposal topic)
Topic 12: Mint SNS tokens (this is considered a critical proposal topic)
Important Topics:
Topic 0: All non-critical proposals
Topic 1: Motion
Topic 2: Manage nervous system parameters
Hey @bobdotfun and everyone. I have been thinking a lot this past week about the ALICE treasury transfer proposals and need to update the community on a new policy that I plan to adopt regarding CodeGov ALICE voting on treasury proposals. Over 35,800 ICP has been transferred out of the ALICE treasury so far, all of which have gone to a trading canister that is not controlled by the SNS. As indicated by @bobdotfun in this Telegram post prior to SNS launch, the ultimate goal is to have all core canisters under DAO control. Since the ALICE agent is actively trading and is responsible for a large amount of ICP, ALICE, and BOB token value, it seems appropriate for the SNS to control these canisters at this point.
I recognize that the ALICE SNS community is not concerned about this situation as evidenced by the fact that the latest proposal 17 passed 77.2% YES to 0.4% NO. In full transparency, the CodeGov ALICE neuron voted to adopt this proposal too. However, since CodeGov is an active participant in this SNS project and we trigger a sizable amount of voting power, the CodeGov organization stands to take a huge credibility hit if it turns out that the the funds are rugged from the SNS. This could have negative consequences on our participation in the NNS as well as other SNS projects. We canāt take this risk by continuing to vote to adopt these treasury transfer proposals. Hence, on future treasury transfer proposals, the CodeGov ALICE neuron will vote to reject. This will continue as long as the SNS does not control the core canisters that holds the treasury funds.
Iām announcing this in advance so anyone who is following the CodeGov ALICE neuron on the Transfer SNS Treasury Funds proposal type is aware of this new voting policy and can follow someone else on this proposal type if you disagree with this decision. It is possible to set any neuron you wish on each proposal type, so feel free to update your neuron following based on this information. Below are the only public neurons in the ALICE SNS to my knowledge.
If you plan to change your following, then please do so soon. The next treasury transfer proposal is likely to occur within the next couple of days. We greatly appreciate the support that the ALICE community has shown toward the CodeGov participation in this SNS and we look forward to continuing to serve you in this capacity. We are not going anywhere, but I wanted to be transparent about this new voting policy change so our Followers have time to adjust as needed.
As an observer on the side lines with regard to ALICE, Iād like to say that I respect this decision from CodeGov and am very pleased to see members of the community holding an SNS to account for the decentralisation itās supposed to be delivering on.
This was my big concern when reviewing ALICE as a prospective SNS, and the scarcity of answers is why I personally rejected it.
It looks like youāre doing a great serive for the ALICE community @wpb, even if some of them may not immediately appreciate it in this instance
The Alice SNS has an initial voting period of only two days. This is half the initial voting period of all other SNS projects. It is too short for everyone to have an opportunity to realize that a proposal has been submitted and still have time to vote. Therefore, I am planning to submit a proposal to extend the initial voting period to four days to match common practice among SNS projects. Since voting is the only source of rewards for SNS participants, it is only fair for everyone to be given a reasonable maximum opportunity to participate in governance. Four days seems to be the commonly accepted practice.
As an observer on the side lines with regard to ALICE, Iād like to say that I respect this decision from CodeGov and am very pleased to see members of the community holding an SNS to account for the decentralisation itās supposed to be delivering on.