Poll of current state of SNS process

After there being lots of conflicting views on most if not all SNS projects, I wanted to create a thread to ask the community to give their thoughts on 2 things that might help with future SNSs.

  1. What is your ideal vision for how the SNS should be used and what type of projects should utilize the SNS.

  2. Does the current state of the SNS process match up with that? If not, then how could the SNS process change to match that vision?

I would encourage this thread to be about everyone giving their honest opinion about the SNS and keep attacks and most debate out of this thread. If there are specific issues to debate, we can create different threads to address those concerns.
I would like this thread to be a place where everyone can see generally how others are thinking about the SNS without the thread being overrun by criticisms. I personally see many people have radically different thoughts on the SNS and would like to have the community get a perspective on others thoughts so that maybe we can have more of a consensus going forward.

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Disclaimer: I have a token allocation with BoomDAO. What I say are my own thoughts and have not been reviewed by anyone.

Ideally I think the SNS should be a place for anyone who wants to create a DAO, decentralize and/or raise funding for their initiative. That being said, I think that each project needs to be clear on what their SNS process will be used for. I am afraid of a mismatch of expectation and reality.
For example, current SNS messaging is heavy around the concept of a ‘decentralization sale’, and when I have seen people raise concerns its because they expect something to be ‘decentralized’ during a ‘decentralization sale’. Some projects can’t be ‘decentralized’ due to either technical limitations or other issues. Decentralization is HARD, even with a decentralization sale its hard. That is not always clear, though it may not be a problem for some people, but it should be clear.
Also I want to note that decentralization has a different meaning to different people. Decentralized is just when one party does not have the power to do anything by themselves and have the majority of voting power. Being ‘fully’, as some say, decentralized to me is more like saying is the power is distributed amongst enough different parties to be potentially more stable for an application than having a few large whales that can sway the decision one way or another. That being said, a DAO with 2 or 3 parties, lets say companies, working toward a common goal of X is decentralized and can be a beneficial DAO to allow for collaboration between those parties.

The SNS decentralization sales seem to be more of a open community approach vs having a few stakeholders. Though I believe the SNS can be used for having a small amount of parties share power, it seems to not be designed around that, but rather being open to everyone and anyone.

Also to note, I personally do not have a problem with a SNS sale to be purely a high risk open investment/funding for a project that is not ready to launch and/or be properly decentralized. Because of the immaturity (lack of existing for a long time) of the SNS process, I just think its important that all of that is clear, individuals arent all going to read all the details of a whitepaper, let alone do investigations into specific the project or check their code. Especially if Dfinity gives a sign off on something, messaging should be clear.

If I were to change anything it would be to simply clarify messaging of SNS, decentralized sales and what each project is attempting to do and their current state. People can make up their own minds and take risks, but they have to be informed on what the risks are for them to make up their own minds.

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I’m super conflicted on this. Early on, when the SNS was first being discussed, I fell in love with the idea of it. It was stated many times by DF employees that this was meant to be the ERC-20 moment for the ecosystem. So when we eventually found out that the protocol-native SNS launchpad was going to be gated by a proposal it really bothered me. Many people (including prominent members of DF) argued that it was going to be a good way for “the community” to filter out scams and high risk investments. Then, more recently, Dom provided his personal expectation for what qualifies as a good SNS candidate and I felt a bit of relief.

What I’m seeing now appears to me to be a mad dash for anyone and everyone who has been building in the ecosystem to put out a whitepaper with a grand vision and request large amounts of funding to eventually put out a product that is eventually decentralized. With the primary motivation being to get a piece of the neuron fund before it is significantly depleted. And we as a network seem totally fine with this as long as we can pump our SNS numbers.

There’s nothing wrong with that. I’ll stress again; THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
But if this is what we’re going to allow then why even require a proposal? Trying to keep up with the latest narrative has completely tired me out. It’s one of those “what are we even fighting for” moments.

Disclaimer: I am fully aware that this is my personal opinion and no I don’t expect others to share my feeling and yes I fully expect others to feel the exact opposite.

Edit: added a couple lines to clarify my confusion a bit.

Edit 2:

I’m still not happy with my post so I’ll try to state it simply. Not to make a demand but just to convey a point. The way I see it we should do one of two things:

  1. Create a protocol-native launchpad that makes it stupid easy for any developer to launch a token and do their own marketing/advertising of their token sale. Pump those SNS numbers and make it clear to the industry the IC is open for business on all levels.

  2. Stick with the original narrative and make sure the credibility and reputation of the SNS stays intact and we only allow open internet services (as defined by Dom) to proceed with this step in journey.

Anything in between (like what we have now) is just going to create friction IMO.

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I agree with guy above you either stick to a set standard or remove the proposal and let anybody be able to make a SNS on the NNS. I prefer having standards rather than opening to flood gates.
Right now we’re just seeing incomplete projects that shouldn’t even have a DAO trying to launch on SNS to snag more funding. The problem is the developers of projects in this ecosystem have become corrupted to greed due to wanting more funding. Rather than releasing a finish project and then selling it to the community they are trying to sell an idea that hasn’t even been implemented yet.

If your project needs more funding request more funding from dfinities grant program and stop trying to take advantage of the icp community. You guys are just turning more people away from ICP in consequence.

Project like BoomDAO shouldn’t even have an SNS sale in my opinion. It doesn’t even make sense.

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I like the SNS I think it’s a good v1 and I’m excited to see where it goes from here

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I’m actually curious to hear any feedback you have on the process. My understanding is that rather than submitting a proposal for Dragginz DAO you chose to buy up the majority of the existing SNS1 on the market. I have no issue with that but I think, for the sake of this forum post, it would probably be useful for others to understand your reasoning. If the process was different in some way would you have submitted a proposal instead of spending all that money?

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Do you prefer standards for launch or let anybody create an SNS on the NNS?

I already had 32% of the vote (because 100 year lockup) from buying SNS-1 like a degen. Always was an option to just take over as opposed to making our own.

I just didn’t want to explain the whole centralisation of creative control to people, so one morning after a brutal karaoke session I checked ICDex and just bought my way in.

Think the main points are
a) its nice to be the first
b) don’t have to spend a lot of effort to get the vote go in your favour, so can focus on the game
c) crypto was boring
d) trial by fire / in at the deep end etc.

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In my view, it is crucial for projects to prioritize development over seeking financial gain through SNS Sale. By placing a strong focus on developing a high quality and fully functional product, projects can ensure that they provide real value to their users and build a solid reputation in the market.

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That’s fair. I appreciate the response.

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