Dfinity is saying that it is technically possible; if enough votes go through. Therefore we must rationally explore that possibility, in my opinion.
Of course how we vote is a different matter.
1 Like
https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/account/ee60052679eab1365986b120f31c131b6a1e02a06000d5ed03299a124c52fe37
This is my neuron address
I don’t quite understand what you mean, these transfer records are all on the chain, and the exchange can’t tamper with them.
Hi @xiaobing, no intent to hurt your feelings but I feel I have the obligation as an ICP staker to express my thoughts below for the best interest of IC…
- IC community should NOT act as a court…
This is a civil case or a criminal case if it’s corp’s property (I am not a lawyer). IC community should NOT and can NOT make the decision based on any form of evidence.
Could it be the case that OP and the “suspect” agreed on transferring the neuron, but later OP and Boss regret and ask Dfinity to get it back without letting the “suspect” know? You think this is ridiculous? I do too! But the point here is that we the community don’t have the knowledge or the right to make any call on this. Just call out some legal nuances here…do we know the relation between OP and the “suspect” outside of work? What could be the motivation of the suspect? Was there any conflict that happened before between OP and suspect? Was there any unfair or fair content in suspect’s employment contract? This could be very complicated in the legal space and IC community should always stay out of this
- This will be a bad start if the proposal passes…
Let’s say OP’s proposal passes. Next month, there is another case with much stronger evidence and we found there was a loophole in OP’s evidence. Do we revoke this? Or, let’s say OP’s proposal is rejected and there is a new case with weaker evidence but gets passed. Do we bring OP’s case back and approve it?
With more stakers coming in, this might happen every once a month. Does the Difinity allocate resource for every case and we vote on every case? I can imagine lots of bad actors laughing behind the scenes if lots of proposals like this pass…
- I DO want to help OP
Here are some resources I find online which seem promising…
https://www.scxsls.com/tlfvideo/337
I highly encourage you find a lawyer ASAP to at least know the possibility to go the legal path
@xiaobing I apologize if I hurt your feeling by saying things above, but I need to let the community hear my thoughts to avoid any potential trouble for the community.
7 Likes
So the very fact that this has to be played out all by itself is kind of sad. An alternate design of internet identity implementation might have been able to prevent this. But that is water under the bridge.
That said, I think that @xiaobing is going to go through the proposal route. Also Dfinity has stated it is not technically impossible to do what @xiaobing is asking to be done.
You’re right in the sense that next month someone might come back with stronger evidence, weaker evidence whatever. The ability to make proposals is ever present. So we should figure out now as to how to consider these types of cases as a community; not just to disregard carte-blanche, imo.
It doesn’t matter, everyone can have their own opinion. Let me answer your first question: it is well known that the decentralization of virtual currency in today’s society makes it very difficult to collect stolen assets, which is why we see news of stolen coins every few days, and I’m sure you also see it frequently. We didn’t see anything of value on the surveillance video, so the proposal was our only hope;
Second question: I can add locking the account for three months or half a year in the proposal, so as to better distinguish whether what I have stated is true or not. If there is any objection, for example, we have sold the account, then the buyer can submit evidence of buying our account.
Third: the police can’t help us find the thief, and the community has rejected our proposal, so what other way can I get my property back? At least at this point, the evidence is that I own the account, so I hope you can back me up.
This is an account with 32000ICP pledged. If there is a buyer, I believe he must have evidence.
Binance customer service can also log in to your Binance account
Binance customer service can log in my account, but they can’t know my original mnemonic. My appeal is to restore the mnemonic when I created it
If I have to change my help, it should be that it has been leaked or in danger. If the person who gets my historical joy word can restore the account through the screenshot of the exchange, it is very dangerous. Even if you can prove that the currency account is you, you can’t prove that the controller of the Internet identity is you, I don’t want to help you find it, but this process has a lot of security issues.
如果我要改我的助记词那么应该是它已经泄漏了或处在危险之中。如果那个得到我的历史助记词的人可以通过交易所的截图来恢复账户，这是非常危险的。即便是你可以证明币安账户属于你，也不能证明那个互联网身份的控制者是你，我并不是不想帮你找回，而是这个流程有很大的安全问题。
Maybe you can try a foreigner alarm?
也许你可以试试找一个外国人报警？
What you said is possible, if I am not the account owner, then the neuron ID and Internet identity anchor numbers are not easy to get
你说的有这种可能，如果我不是账号的所以者，那么神经元id还有互联网身份锚号这些也是不容易得到的吧
Looking for a foreigner to call the police? I don’t know what that means.
找一个外国人报警？我不懂是什么意思？
The evidence I have now:
1: Screenshot of Binance’s transfer; (We can also provide mobile phone screen recording if necessary)
2: Neuron ID can be seen in the screenshot of neuron page;
3:171674 initial mnemonic, approved by Dfinity (the tool they provided I used the public key generated by the mnemonic in my hand to match 171674);
4: Two yubikeys “Tiger” and “tiger-backup”, Tiger is my boss’s name
1 Like
嗯……….…………也许国际纠纷优先级比较高
其实报警这个如果有用的话，早就报警了 我们的监控视频没有找到有用的信息，这个事情找警察也没有用 因为去中心化的东西如果没有监控你根本就没有办法找到小偷的
Besides the dilemma of the NNS acting as a court here I would like to point out two problems that arise from this case. If the entire story is true a thief now has more voting power than most of us will ever have.
Secondly you can’t track spawned neurons, which come from minting transaction. So this thief could very easily cash out the rewards from this stolen neuron.
4 Likes
I have to agree with people above that a real world theft would have to be dealt with in the real world legal system. If the theft would have been through some exploit within the NNS it would be a different story.
While feeling sympathy for the OP, I don’t think having the NNS vote on this is a good idea. If I lose my II through negligence (not implying this was the case), who is the judge? The NNS? Sorry for OP, but I think this is a very slippery road we would get ourselves on here…
1 Like