Ledger Live now supports ICP

Dear @lmuntaner,

I just realized that Ledger Live (desktop) now displays the ICP wallets, and supports the features “send” and “receive”.

So I wanted to know if the support for neurons (display & staking features) is already planned, and if you have any ETA about it.

Thank you !

Roman

Hi!

Yes, the Ledger Live for ICP went live today!

We still don’t have an ETA for staking. But it’s in the roadmap.

I’ll pass along that users are asking for it and that might fast track it :wink:

Thanks!

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Ouaow ! Crazy coincidence ! I was never checking the adding, but it appears that I checked the right day :grinning:. What a joy to see ICP within Ledger Live. Thanks a lot for your reply :pray:

Dear @lmuntaner,

I just wanted to let you know that I noticed that when you click on the link “view in explorer” in Ledger Live to check any specific transaction, it does not display our dearest dashboard (https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org), but this one : www.icpexplorer.org. Is this on purpose ?

Would not it be preferable to display our “official” dashboard, more complete ?

I believe that this happened by accident and will be corrected.

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Any update on if SNS tokens are now supported by the ledger device?

Regarding SNS tokens supported by the ledger device, we are working on a new release of the Ledger App that will support them.

Then, we will need to add that support in the NNS Dapp.

We don’t have yet an ETA on that, but it’s a priority in our roadmap.

I’ll pass along the request to product. It’s good to know that users are asking for this.

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Dear @lmuntaner,

About integrating the neurons and staking with Ledger Live :

For the team in charge of doing it sooner or later, I would like to stress that currently it may be an underrated feature. In my opinion, such an integration could be massive from a marketing point of view.

I say this because as you may know, Ledger Live have entirely redesigned their staking section and only a few coins are currently available. So the first ones will benefit a lot for being displayed there : it will make discover the IC to new people just looking for new yields within Ledger Live. This section is really well designed, it sounds like a “give it a try”. As these people will be more confident about investing in an asset directly displayed in Ledger Live, it will attract new liquidities to IC. Indeed, It could bring more people to give the governance a try rather than by lowering the dissolve delay to 1 day, as projected in a proposal announced by @dominicwilliams on twitter.

So if possible, it could be a good thing to make this integration happen sonner than later, because it will be a very good marketing.

Regards

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This is truly an excellent suggestion; I hope Dfinity can handle it in a swift manner.

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Hi!

We totally agree with you.

The team is already in contact with Ledger, but this doesn’t seem to be as straightforward as we thought and we don’t have an estimation on when it will be done.

But it’s on our radar and we’ll inform you when we have more news!

Thanks!

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Very glad to hear it, dear @lmuntaner. Thank you for your feedback. Hopefully, Ledger will be helpful.

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Dear @lmuntaner,

I hope this message finds you well.

As 7 months have passed since the integration of ICP within Ledger Live (LL), I am curious about any step forward about this question back then. Of course, I understand that it may not be a priority given the context, but it is just to follow the process up.

In the case where none step forward has been made in the meanwhile, I would like to share with you an interpretation of the situation and an idea to ease not only this local process, but also a more global one.

A reason of the lack of zeal of Ledger to support the neurons and their functions in LL could be : the lack of incentive for having a neuron followed by neurons, even if it is a named one.

As I see it, they would be prompter to achieve such an integration if followed neurons were having a percentage of their followers’ voting rewards, because Ledger would probably create their own named neuron (the Ledger Named Neuron), hoping people create neurons and configure them to follow their own directly from LL. I can see and I want a future in which all sorts of entities would have their own named neurons (companies, non-profit association, etc.) with their own voting policies. But for this, they will need an incentive to do it. And currently, there is none.

ICP is the only top rank chain where participants can delegate their votes to actors without having to pay any fee to their followees for the service they firstly expect from them : assure their own rewards for themselves. But in the mean time, people are paying without having any reluctancy 10%-20% of fees on other major chains for delegating their stake.

Until now, everybody has considered perfectly normal that followees perform their volunteer task of monitoring and involving at least in Governance/SNS topics and sometimes more (e.g. Codegov with replicas) whereas the followers could technically perform the vote for themselves, unlike to other networks where receiving directly rewards would suppose they have hardware capacities.

Indeed, this volunteering is so hard to believe that, from time to time, we can see here and there some conspiracy theories about Dfinity allegedly funding some named neurons (funding Synapse neuron, to not name ourselves).

This idiosyncrasy of ICP consisting in free delegating is problematic, because in reality nothing is free : the fees not payed by the followers are just paid by someone else : by their followees who pay by providing free work. Given this, at the end of the day, the simple followers are more rewarded than followees. And to tell to named neurons that they do have an interest in performing their activity because by easing the success of the network they will grow their bag’s value is an absurdity as much for the psychology as for the game theory. Why some actors would perform this teleological free work rather than imitating the ones receiving the same rewards by basically doing nothing ? Non sense. Indeed, it is just the opposite : since 3 years, the only reason for being a followee is not intellectual or pragmatical, but just a passion : the love of the network, and “l’amour rend aveugle”.

But if we take a look on the big picture, we want a sustainable model of governance, with named neurons of all sorts of actors, like Ledger. We want a future in which Dfinity can be followed on all the topics of vote (even governance and SNSs), because there would be so much actors, that Dfinity would not be accused of centralization, but would be a balancing force.

To summarize : I see such a slowness of Ledger’s integration as an illustration of the lack of incentive for followees, and such an incentive could participate to a powerful growth of the network.

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Hi @Roman !

This is an interesting idea and I believe this is not the first time the community hears about it.

I brought it up with the team for further consideration. But I don’t see this happening anytime soon due to other priorities.

Regarding staking in Ledger Live, as you say, it was neither in their benefit nor their policy to allow for this integration. But the policy has recently changed, and we will look into the feature again.

I’ll keep you posted!

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Thanks a lot for your answer @lmuntaner.

Understood. Thanks !

Regards

Hi @Roman

I am happy to let you know that we have started working on this feature.

However, due to Ledger’s current process for new feature in Ledger Live we don’t expect the feature to be available until after this summer.

I’ll keep you posted when I have more news.

Have a good day!

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Dear @lmuntaner,

This is a GREAT news ! It’s going to be a catalyzer for our governance, by opening it to a broader public.

Thanks a lot for letting me know.

Have an excellent day end week-end !

Regards
Roman

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