I just posted something, but it’s ‘awaiting approval’ … that’s new 
(I wonder if this comment also needs approving or if there’s something specific about my other post that the AI didn’t like)
UPDATE: A picture is worth 523 words…
6 Likes
Personally, I think that what Adam&co did was great and really valuable. We needed the cleanse. What I don’t like is that now forum looks like a toxic junkyard with a ton of completely off topic posts and accusations all over. Some of them were true, yes. But there is a ton of completely random replies and topics. Highly unpleasant to read.
If we could get to a point where these “random” posts are constrained to some particular topic/label/something that could be easily ignored by those who don’t like them, I think that would be acceptable to most.
I don’t know, however, how reasonable would it be to ask these particular posters to constrain these discussions to a dedicated “Random” topic that we can ask to be created?
4 Likes
The AI filtering is not active yet. Based on what I read in this thread, we dearly need something.
2 Likes
I understand where you’re coming from Wenzel, but you should also try to recognise the state of affairs that led to this. Many in this community, including yourself, are far too quick to discount many kinds of discussion that have the potential to do damage to IC confidence. This leads to valid concerns being ignored unless somebody with real influence starts making a racket.
Anyone who takes the IC’s long term potential seriously should be concerned about the intentional opacity of numerous processes and procedures as they stand today. You should also note that there’s still a lot that needs to be done in this respect, which is going to require constant push given the conflicting interests that are at play.
Regarding Node Providers: I spent months raising concerns about Node Provider onboarding practices, and IC Target Topology enforcement weaknesses (completely undermining the decentralisation coefficients), and was consistently palmed off or ignored, despite:
- it being evident that there are interdependent / duplicated NPs that undermine IC Target Topology assumptions
- it being clear that reviewers aren’t asking pertinent questions, diligently following a rule book that was never fit for purpose
- it being obvious that something needed to change, but diffusion of responsibility lead to nobody doing anything about it
Regarding SNS Launches: I’ve consistently pushed against the willingness of the community to adopt bad SNSs, and I’ve time and again challenged the points of view of others in the Synapse community who set a low bar for adoption (including yourself).
Regarding Undue Influence in SNS Projects: I’ve been putting months of effort into raising alarm bells and trying to implement mechanisms that address this issue (which has come under significant attack from yourself).
Despite the above, nothing was really being done to address these concerns. Finally, things are starting to change. Why? Because risk-averse, passionate members of the community, with sufficient stake and power, and something real to lose, have realised that the majority of the voting population have been asleep at the wheel. Personally, I can understand why there’s some anger and outrage.
I’d like to add that there are more things that are cause for concern that haven’t even been brought to public attention. You use the term ‘conspiracy theory’ a lot. Please stop doing that, you’re just making people angry. What you don’t appreciate is the very fact that there’s plausible space for such theories is in itself problematic, indicating systems and procedures that lack required robustness or verifiability.
If I had a higher stake in the IC, and if it were my full-time occupation, I’d be putting significantly more time into feeding these discussions. I would try to do so respectfully, but I have to admit that the lesaffaire attitude of many who are in delegated positions of power can make that challenging.
If you want people to stop making a racket, start listening (or just stop talking for a bit), so they don’t have to shout.
5 Likes
Grab this man a beer
1 Like
Who are you to tell anyone how to act or what to say? Maybe people are just fed up with the corruption and have finally had enough.. Maybe if you see somthing you don’t like just ignore it instead of writing a 10 page essay.
Why don’t you worry about what you are doing rather than what Adam is doing
1 Like
I assume you are referring to this thread linked below regarding the FomoWell SNS and written by @4eku. That thread is a great example of an intellectually honest, diplomatic, and fair investigation report. It was fact based, not ad hominem and not defamatory. In my opinion, it achieved exactly the kind of interaction on the forum that we should be seeking. Every single person associated with that SNS seems to have come forward with a statement regarding their role and opinion on the situation. I believe that happened because the evidence was presented in a neutral tone and spoke for itself. It didn’t need any embellishment from the critics.
Sure, there are quite a few degens who still feel the need to turn that thread into a swamp. I don’t know if Adam had a role in that investigation behind the scenes, but his comments in the forum thread certainly don’t seem to add any intellectual value to the discussion up to this point. However, he is seen as a leader in the ICP ecosystem and people clearly take their cues from him. I would hope that someone of his power and influence would try to be more professional. That’s all that is asked when we engage on the forum. It’s not hard to be civilized and professional. There are so many examples where it has been done effectively including this one. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
1 Like
You just can’t help yourself can you.
2 Likes
Why don’t you take some of your own advice???
The rest of your response is based on the assumption that the “cleanse” has been completed, whereas the posts in the forum prove otherwise.
What’s the rush @sat? surely we can spare a year or two out of the 8 for thorough cleaning. (I have experience cleaning floors and removing unwanted stains)
Send it to zero.
The real value lies in the work of DFINITY’s engineers, not in a wealthy individual throwing tantrums and hijacking the forum and governance.
Everyone has lost money over the past few years. He needs to move on and accept that he won’t control the IC forever, and that is good.
1 Like
You’ve not been paying attention have you.
3 Likes
Many such cases. That’s how it got till here.
1 Like
What I’m saying is that there are many ways to achieve the same result. Being loud and noisy and destroying the forum is one. I’m convinced there’s also at least one way that does not involve shooting randomly at everyone and everything and killing innocent in an attempt to cleanse the bad ones.
3 Likes
Then I politely suggest you make the Flags public and stop censoring posts in this forum. Lets also talk peacefully about how DFINITY has been enabling them in this forum for years now by weaponizing moderation and promoting corrupt builders
2 Likes
yes please show who’s flagging the posts, it would basically solve a lot of problems
3 Likes
I don’t have control over the forum. And I don’t know if this information (who moderated what) can be even made public. Also I don’t understand how this could improve the content quality.
How about if instead community creates a community-owned and community-moderated forum to lead these discussions?
Discourse is quite cheap, so money should not be a concern.
I think that might be an excellent compromise that satisfies nearly everyone.
1 Like
Ugh…sorry sir…I must have mis clicked? Why can I set the solution to someone else’s post? Last night as I was watching basketball I was flipping through this thread and basically everything was hidden so there was much taping with only half attention. I apologize if it was perceived as some kind of cryptic statement. It was not.
I had recently suggested to some folks at Dfinity that it might be productive to fork the forum into developer-forum.dfinity.org and governance-forum.dfinity.org. I don’t know if you can just copy pasta the db and code to a different vm with this software or not, but I’d love not seeing 30 sub net governance threads at one time so often.
As far as ICDevs, we’ve been a bit hamstrung by resources lately, but in the last year we’ve:
- delivered a robust exploration of DAOs at https://daos.icdevs.org that culminated in the icrc-75 minimal membership standard and dapp along with a membership rule framework and reference implementation.
- Delivered a subscription utility that died because Dfinity won’t let the nns manage it. I’m working through a solution with them at the moment to bring it back.
- Published 8 complementary standards that provide a way for canisters to increase their transparency around wasm validation, history and configurations and publish reproducible history of their state.
- funded the implementation of all evm codes in motoko. We are currently trying to raise funds to build out the execution engine(you can donate here: https://explorer.gitcoin.co/#/round/42161/865/35), but the global down turn combined with bearish sentiment is making to rates difficult(along with bitfinity weirdness making the goal or running a gitcoin round in ic infrastructure a bit perilous.)
- shipped icrc-99 suite that allows for the routing evm NFTs from any evm to the ic as a icrc-7 nft that can then be cast to any other evm.
- shipped the ovs ledger and supporting tools for open source devs to provide a way for users of their software to fund development through cycle sharing
- Led and participated in a number of working groups including helping lay the foundation for the icrc-72 event system that allows canisters to do pub sub in an ic congruent way.
What have you been up to cat?
3 Likes
Austin I do not want to engage with you anymore, I respect you for your code contributions in the forums and stuff you build. Sorry about my temper tantrums here. Its not fun getting posts flagged, accounts banned and repeatedly censored here. I am just here to see through this issue for now.
1 Like