After using the slider to set the locking period, we have realised how non-user friendly it is to have the max set at 888 years. We can’t really keep it like that as a tiny movement is decades. I can see this being a huge problem when we get more people using it.
The tokens held by the founders will always be locked to max. It is not our intention to do anything with them other than hold. We do however want other people to have the option to easily lock for much smaller periods of time. Say 1 month, 6 months, a year sort of levels. At present this is very challenging to choose.
My question for @lara and @domwoe is can we change the max lock up for new people only? Or does it have to apply to everyone?
What would happen to the few people in addition to us who have already locked for 100-888 years? Whilst we appreciate the show of faith, it was not really intended for anyone else to lock for that long.
Nobody locked post take over. The people that are complaining are the people that locked their tokens for 100 years with no guarantee of rewards. Now all I see are people complaining about how they locked up for 100 years and are somehow trying to shift the blame on the dragginz team when it was your own doing and no guarantee of rewards pre and post takeover.
SNS-1 DAO has been centralized anyway, it’s worth considering completely removing the dissolve delay. Currently, it only creates a problem and doesn’t provide any major benefits.
People who currently lock tokens for over 100 years or more are less important for further adoption, but the possibility of accidentally locking tokens further into the future seems quite deterring to a potential token holder.
My question for @lara and @domwoe is can we change the max lock up for new people only? Or does it have to apply to everyone?
The maximum dissolve delay can be set in the nervous system parameters (see here). It is one value that holds for all neurons.
So all neurons would be affected by this change, including developer neurons.
I assume the interesting question is what happens if the max_dissolve_delay (let’s call it max_dd) is set to a value lower than the dissolve delay (let’s shorten it to dd) of some current neurons. Let’s take as an example a neuron N with 100 years dd and assume that newly the max_dd is set to 1 year:
neuron N’s dd would keep the old high value of 100 years if the neuron is not touched
however, for the voting power only the current max_dd is relevant. That means that even though neuron N has 100 years dd, for the voting power computation it is just assumed it has 1 year (you can see here that the code takes the minimum of the actual dd and the max_dd for the computation)
whenever the dd of a neuron is changed, then it is effectively adjusted to a value that is at most the current max_dd. For neuron N this means that if its controller hits “increase dissolve delay”, then the actual dd will be set to 1 year (for example here).
Does this make sense or does anyone think I missed something?
Note that this is the canister-view. I am not sure how it would look like on a given frontend if the dissolve delay of a selected neuron is a lot larger than the max_dd. The NNS frontend dapp and other frontends might not expect that and have a hard time displaying that. For example, I am not sure how the slider would look like when such a neuron tries to “increase” the dissolve delay and whether it would just ignore the neuron’s current setting.
But I think you should be able to try that out in a local test environment!
I hope this helps!
PS: we will start holding SNS office hours next week. If you have more questions, feel free to ask them here or bring them to the office hours!
That’s why they are trying to change the Max lock period.
But the people that locked their tokens for 100 years prior to take over should absolutely not be unlocked since the majority did it purposely with no guarantee of rewards
Without the dissolve delay the Dragginz team could just unlock their tokens and walk away “rugpull”. Even though I don’t think they would - it scares the hell out of me to remove it.
I myself have a neuron locked for 888 years and I wouldn’t like it to be unlocked without my permission at any time by the DAO. I support your thought!
Thank you for your explanation @lara. For future ease of use, we don’t have any choice but to reduce the max dissolve delay. The slider going from 0 to 888 years just doesnt work.
@borovan has now set the new maximum dissolve delay to 8 years. Apparently he doesn’t believe in test environments…
We think that is a reasonable amount of time for people to wish to lock for. If it is good enough for ICP… This means that anyone who has locked for under 8 years, has the option of locking up to a maximum of eight years. It does not change any neurons locked for a greater period than that.
If you locked for longer than 8 years and no longer wish to be locked for that long, the only option available to you is to start dissolving and try to live a long healthy life.
As for the 600 or so neuron holders happily locked for 100 years or more, I guess we will have to figure some way to display that tremendous faith in the game somehow!
Apologies for the changes, but this is really new territory for everyone here.
And just for a handfull (up to ~ 132 DKP (?)) holders who have a 10+ year Neuron. It’s 1,32% of supply. And since the DAO is in your control, you can do whatever you like. If there are technicalities that make it impossible at this time, just ask @dfinity for some solution.
Why not have a good start and make them happy too? This is life-changing money for a lot of people.
And have you considered all risks? All 10+ year Neurons colluding on voting?
Maybe just maybe you shouldn’t have been so reckless and lock your tokens for that long with no guarantees of anything. It’s not the teams responsibility to fix your reckless decision. Stop asking about this and just enjoy the cool in game hat youll get
We can’t do anything, the SNS is still restricted. We can’t mint tokens, reduce dissolve delays, there are quite a few restrictions and for good reasons. We’re not going to pass a NNS proposal and waste weeks of work recompiling the WASMs just to retroactively change a decision that was made by a handful of people.
This just is one of those things where we can’t keep everybody happy.
We can however do cool stuff in-game for those neuron holders. Will that annoy the rest of the community that now have no ability to lock past 8 years? Probably.
It’s complicated and we’ll try our best to make sure that it’s fair and everybody is happy in the long term.
Thanks @borovan. Let’s hope this will play out well in the long term then.
Btw, I’m not asking you should put any effort in trying to effect the NNS WASMs. But we are still in the early days of the SNS/NNS. Maybe in the future the palette of tools will be bigger and it will be easy to by SNS reduce the existing dissolve delays or something with the same outcome.
