Thank you ONICAI team, this sounds promising and I think its genuinely awesome to see project leaders taking stear from their community.
I’m very exicted about ONICAI’s potential to push the IC forward in the onchain AI space. I learnt about this project a while ago via a recommendation from @Arthur2.
This project has a great team, a passionate community, and a killer mission.
I’m looking forward to seeing the update. Thanks again
Thank you Onicai team,
Arjaan (@icpp), Nuno (@Nuno ), Abhishek (@kanodia ), Patrick (@patnorris )
Great to hear that the team has reached a decision about feasibility and viability of one-token system.
Hope the team can also find a way to integrate community requests (@Arthur2 @Sky @HarryP and many others in ONICAI OC chat ) for 1:1 conversion FunnAi:Onicai with the same final Total Supply of 21M tokens!
As you would agree, current funnAi community plays a crucial role on the success of ONICAI humbling start in ICP ecosystem!
It would be greatly appreciated if you could include a link to this forum in the Whitepaper as a reference.
1. Purpose and Timing of SNS
4. Utilization and Demand Reality
What are the primary drivers of current ~27-33% miner utilization?
What assumptions are being made about future demand growth and what if they are wrong?
If utilization remains flat for 12-18 months, what changes (if any) in strategy or spending?
Which metrics will the SNS use to decide whether to expand or contract capacity?
What is the maximum monthly treasury spend at SNS genesis?
How does spending scale up or down based on capacity utilization and revenue?
Which expenses are fixed vs variable?
Under what conditions should the SNS vote to reduce or pause funding?
6. Milestones and Accountability
7. Token Economics and Value Flow
8. Team Incentives
9. Governance Load
10. Risk Disclosure (This Is Critical)
11. Exit, Fork and Failure Scenarios
12. Community Expectations
One Meta-Question (Most Important)
Thank you very much for your time and looking forward for the update! Very best
Agree with point 1. We set our (Nuance) reject cost very high to encourage well thought out proposals that had already been vetted with the community in this forum (so low chance of rejection). Our thinking was/is that proposals are a big deal and should be well invested in before making the proposal. Just my 2 cents.
Thank you so much for the feedback you’ve provided us and the stimulating discussion so far! We’ve read every message and you put many valuable nuggets of ideas and potential improvements in there. In particular, this got us thinking about how a unified token model for the onicai SNS and the funnAI Protocol could look like. While not easy technically and tokenomics-wise, we’re happy that together we explored this opportunity and the possibilities it opens up. By taking the best of both worlds (“classical” SNS governance token and mined Proof-of-AI-Work token) and combining these into this new proposal for the onicai SNS and its ONICAI token, we created a stronger framework, and frankly something very novel (think world premier); we call it
“Truly Open AI with Bitcoin Tokenomics, combined with community-owned governance and sustainable funding mechanisms”.
Our goal throughout was to find a solution which would align all onicai SNS stakeholders - SNS decentralization sale participants, the ICP ecosystem, the broader AI community, the existing funnAI and onicai community, as well as current and future developers and contributors - and a well-balanced solution that represents a win/win/win/win/win situation for all.
We are very excited to share with you this solution today and to work together with you to make it a reality! Foremost, the revised and enhanced whitepaper shows the envisioned path towards this onicai SNS and its contributions to decentralized AI. In addition, we are sharing more resources that we hope will prove valuable to you while assessing in which role you would like to take part in the onicai journey. We’re looking forward to it!
— The onicai team
Resources:
FYI - announcement on X
Thanks for working on these changes!
I haven’t had a chance to read through this properly yet, but my initial impression is that these are some great enhancements to the SNS proposal.
Genesis VP distribution looks much healthier, particularly in light of the additional governance tokens that will continue to be mined by the community beyond the genesis SNS sale, in addition to the token swap for existing FUNNAI holders.
I actually think SNS token mining involving commitment of ICP (and/or cycles), along with progressive mining scarcity, is a key thing that previous SNSs have been missing. 
Once I’ve had some time to absorb the whitepaper, I’m sure I’ll come back with some more questions. For the moment my only question is if there’s a rough date planned for the SNS launch proposal?
@rem.codes , @nicko ,
Thanks for your feedback regarding proposal rejection costs. We increased it significantly as you recommended.
In the new approach there will be only on token, the ONICAI token.
The whitepaper explains in detail how the ONICAI token will power the full ecosystem, as governance and utility token, and funnAI will switch over to run on it as well.
Let us know if after reading the updated SNS whitepaper and the associated FAQs you have further questions.
@Arthur2, @ermir , and others,
Your push for a one token solution was supported with strong arguments. We looked hard at all the possible options and believe the approach presented is a strong proposal that will create a very well positioned SNS that addresses your concerns in the best way possible.
You had a long list of questions that we will answer, but please review first the new whitepaper and also the FAQs where we answer your concerns in further details.
We still have these placeholders in the YAML, but will update them shortly with actual principal ids.
The SNS Tokenomics Analyzer - ICP Dashboard has no issues importing the yaml as is. Are you using a different tool?
Full canister documentation — We are finalizing a spreadsheet that we will make available shortly
Voting power analysis at various time horizons — Does this tool help provide the answers to this question? SNS Tokenomics Analyzer - ICP Dashboard
What is the relationship between FUNNAI and ONICAI? Can holders convert? What happens to FUNNAI after SNS launch? – This has changed significantly with the new single token approach. For details see the new Whitepaper, but in short, there will be only one token, the ONICAI token. FUNNAI holders will be able to convert after SNS, and FUNNAI will dissappear.
Will team members, advisors (including Outlier Ventures), or affiliated parties participate in the swap? If yes, what is the maximum combined ICP? – No
Thanks @icpp
Please push this back to at least the 5th Jan. There is a syndication period which has been reset with the latest init param changes.
I would reject a proposal that doesn’t conform to this, and the foundation tends to reject or abstain in those scenarios.
There is a lot to your proposal. All source code should be open source, along with reproducible builds. Your tokenomics related arrangements also have numerous moving parts.
I think it’s important as ever to allow the community time to digest what will be proposed. Thanks!
Here’s a question I think I’ll be returning to (unless I can find it in the whitepaper).
Hi @luckyDog , thank you for your thoughtful feedback!
While the proposal date was our initial target, we agree it’s a stretch now and will make sure to only create the proposal to the NNS once we feel the community has digested this updated whitepaper plus parameters, and we all had appropriate time for the conversation on it 
The milestone based development work goes back to comments like @bitel911 's “Milestone-Based Funding” and “Q5: What rights and privileges does a participant get for contributing to an SNS launch, and what should this participant expect to gain?” here Reviving the SNS Framework: Addressing Current Challenges and Exploring Solutions , and @Leadership 's https://forum.dfinity.org/t/helping-sns-daos-succeed-milestones-based-treasury-withdrawals/47152 that we agree with.
In the onicai SNS, we thus propose that development work is funded in a similar process based on milestones and community review calls, i.e.
We envision this process to happen every quarter to give actual development transparency to the community. The development will thus work a bit like DFINITY developer grants, with regular updates and reviews.
Please also see the section “Milestone-based treasury withdrawal model” in the whitepaper (https://www.onicai.com/files/onicai_SNS_Whitepaper.pdf).
In addition, please see " onicai SNS Treasury" in the Whitepaper where we propose the idea of staking and then dissolving treasury tokens on a quarterly basis such that mostly only what is needed for the SNS’ quarterly budget would be available. From the whitepaper section: “To limit the immediate availability of the SNS treasury’s ICP and ONICAI holdings at genesis, the development team plans to propose that the majority of these tokens be staked. The staking mechanism will cause the ICP and ONICAI to unlock gradually over time. That way, only a reasonable amount of funds can be allocated at any given time for the SNS budget, e.g. on a quarterly basis, ensuring that the treasury remains solvent and can sustain the SNS development and growth. At the same time, the maturity from staking can be used as rewards for governance participation…”
Please let us know if this addresses your questions, and if you have any further ones 
Thanks @patnorris, my interest was more in what the actual milestones are. However I gather from this comment that’s not been established
Would you be able to paint a general roadmap? What’s the endgame for this project? When will the SNS be considered fully developed and no longer needing to fund further development out of the treasury?
May seem like a silly question, but is further development funding necessary? There’s a working proof of AI work mining protocol running on-chain.
How will the various canisters that are being registered with this SNS contribute to that vision? There are quite a few and I’m still not clear on how they all relate to one another.
What problems are these AI miners solving? What will they be solving after some further development? Will they be able to review certain types of NNS proposals and automatically trigger a vote (allowing on-chain AI assets to start contributing to their own governance and to that of the network on whch they’re hosted)?
In terms of ONICAI acting as the replacement for the FUNNAI token, shouldn’t it have the same max supply? I think as long at the total minable tokens (from mAIners) remain the same (this appears to be the case), then I think the key principle is in tact.
Something I’d like to check is what the incentive is to stake ONICAI - particularly after the first 4 years (at which point maturity growth rate drops to zero).
I haven’t got much time at the moment so have just brain-splatted my thoughts in hope it drives some discussion and answers.
Yes, I’m also running it through dfx sns validation.
FUNNAI HOLDERS AND mAiners need AIRDROP EARLY ADOPTERS 3 TO 5 PERCENT THEY HELP TO BUILD funnAI SO WE CAN HAVE ONICAL COINS
I think FUNNAI holders are already in a reasonable position. If the SNS sale gets above midway or hits the max, FUNNAI holders gets a discount on the ONICAI conversion after launch.
Its only if the sale is closer to the min target that FUNNAI holders are out of pocket. Importantly, anyone who believes that will be the likely outcome can sell now and buy back during the SNS sale. They would risk losses though if ONICAI performs well.
I think this is probably quite a well calibrated conversion rate.
Hi @patnorris, I hope you and your team had a great Xmas. I’ve been thinking about ONICAI when I’ve had a spare moment. It’s probably the most interesting SNS launch I’ve seen over the last 2 years or so that I’ve been taking an interest in SNS launches.
Further to my question above about the roadmap, I think a more important question is how the ONICAI team will be voting on the proposals that disburse rewards to themselves. It’s likely that you will be able to trigger a very significant portion of VP, both from stake and followers.
Are there any initiatives, plans or procedures in place to avoid a scenario where the team ends up grading their own homework so to speak (with respect to milestone achievements and fund entitlement)?
Hi @Lorimer , thank you for your messages and your words I hope you had a great Christmas too!
The exact quarter by quarter milestones are not established in detail but will then be through the SNS community. As the development team, we’ll propose the following items to the SNS (please see Whitepaper section “SNS Technical Roadmap” for details):
For the first SNS quarter, we’d for example see these items as important to work on:
The items would be discussed and reviewed (in the forum and other channels, as well as via the dedicated SNS community calls) to then vote on the proposals. We hope that this milestone based development process will prove to be effective, and agree that it’s critical that it is (and doesn’t end up being just the development team grading themselves as you point out). We’re thus open to work with the SNS community to ensure its effectiveness. As a new governance process for development work, it’ll be interesting to see which exact solution the onicai SNS will prefer and implement.
After the 4 years of newly minted ONICAI as governance reward, ICP (from staked ICP) as well as existing ONICAI (from the treasury) would be the governance rewards. These will come from the different treasury inflows, please see this snippet from the Whitepaper:
While the onicai SNS will own several production applications and DeAI technologies from the start with some attached revenue, there are many contributions and advancements to be made (please see Whitepaper section “Next level: What the SNS will build, offer and monetize”) to build out and grow the envisioned onicai DeAI Platform. The SNS would be in a good position to drive and fund these, and accrue the revenues and value from them in return. For example, the funnAI Protocol (as a major app released) takes a cut from all activity on the app and thus has ICP inflows (which it then handles in its tokenomics engine as automated buybacks, burns, liquidity provisions). The team hasn’t taken any cut from this as the ICP inflows are most needed in the tokenomics engine, and for now could not properly fund a development team anyways. The onicai SNS can get it to this point though (and beyond), as a stable organization with the proposed milestone based development funding, and achieve the additional work (technical as well as business development with customers and partners) which will be needed as outlined in the Whitepaper sections “SNS Technical Roadmap” and “Go-to-Market Strategy”. This includes the work to get mAIners to perform useful work, e.g. governance as a service (as you mention in your post above), marketing/communication, moderation, monitoring/fraud detection, etc as a service (which relies on Chain Fusion AI).
