Statement Addressing Borovan and Thyassas Recent Activity and Future Plans

General DFINITY
54

You are kind of right, unfortunately liquidity has massively dried up in the ecosystem since I joined around 3 years ago now. We used to have consistently big mints which gave me, as an outside developer, the confidence to quit my Web2 development job and start building on the IC. I was able to follow the tech I believed in rather than having to work on another chain solely because of the liquidity that was there.

With a few exceptions (Motoko Sentinels, Ludo) this simply doesn’t happen anymore, and as a result all devs have been pushed towards the SNS for survival, the NF was there to sweeten the deal, and it definitely did exactly that. Apart from the SNS there was only one other real option: going multichain, see Toniq and Dmail for examples of that.

I really hope that we can solve the liquidity problem and revive the NFT space, devs need a way to make revenue otherwise we are doomed to have projects which just eventually die.

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Yes, this is the real issue.

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If you do that, it would mean that investors won’t be able to trade their tokens until all rounds are done. General public doesn’t like that in crypto - everybody wants to make quick money: buy today cheap, sell tomorrow 10x. Maybe you can change the sentiment around such a process, but it won’t be an easy job.

If you allow people to trade after the very first round, all consequent rounds will have to offer a cheaper price (otherwise, why would you buy tokens for 1.5 from the team, when you can buy it for 1.1 from the market? ofc, some real fans will do that, just to support their beloved team, but this is 1% of your community at most). If you offer them at cheaper price, it means that the price will constantly go down: people know that once the second round is finished, there will be a bunch of those who wants to cash out (because the market currently offers higher prices and than can get quick profit). Because of that your previous investors will protect themselves by exiting early, driving the price lower with their sells.

You will lose your community and your token is destined to go to 0.

Public TGEs have to happen in one round. What matters the most is what happens after.
In (some) SNS we have this additional emission - people get tokens for staking their own tokens. The inflation itself is great - it increases the market cap of a token, making it go up in various charts (and people tend to trust big MC projects more). What’s bad is that esentially people get tokens for free, which lowers their original entry price, which allows them to sell at profit without the price actually rising. Same goes to the SNS treasury (not ICP, SNS token) - the system implies that this treasury is for various giveaways (partnerships, marketing activities and stuff). But this means that you will be giving away these money for free, which will again lower people’s entry price and allow them to sell immediately, harming the price for everyone else.

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(post deleted by author)

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I just wanted to drop a note of gratitude for this thread, which is one of the more thought-provoking, and respectful threads I’ve seen. Many different opinions and facts expressed, and done so with civility. Really appreciate how the community comes together to discuss these difficult topics.

Always remember, we are blazing new trails and I’d guess that no humans have ever attempted the level of bottom-up coordination that the ICP community is attempting. Progress will require many different viewpoints.

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Awwwww thanks kyle! :face_holding_back_tears:

We love you too! :heart:

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60

Bravo to Adam and Donna for taking things into their own hands and for laying down the law in the land of lawlessness here. This was needed. Great post Donna.

This was bound to happen eventually and if I was in Adam’s position, I would do the exact same thing and maybe not even as nice as Adam has been. I could see it coming when I first saw the SNS system and how it was being run.

Unfortunately, relying on people’s good intentions just doesn’t work esp. in crypto with lots of money at stake. Greed unfortunately can corrupt anyone, even people who initially had good intentions but those that did not have good intentions from day 1: shame on you.

George and Saikat. You guys are officially on notice! Now that you’ve been exposed, you better deliver something soon! I wanted to give you guys the benefit of the doubt but I have to side with Adam and Donna here.

As for Trax, if you own 90%, you own it. You run it. You can dictate whatever you’d like. So you’re borrowing from yourself. Happy to hear you’re talking to Trax. I would like to see Trax be successful on the IC because it has potential but there is nothing wrong with requiring all SNS’s to show meaningful progress prior to them being able to transfer a single ICP from their treasuries.

You don’t see Elon Musk being rewarded with his vested stock options for non-performance after all. You bring us investors value and returns and capital gains and you get rewarded. That’s the way it works in the real world. There are no free rides or free lunches.

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61

But I don’t understand @marcio, why completely delete the project? Bitcoin prediction markets on ICP were a brilliant idea. And it was actually a working product.. I’m not an ICP senior, but was this Adam /borovan guy buy basically holding you project hostage with his voting rights?

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Nope, @marcio has complete control of Seers.

I made a Kong prediction market that it would be bricked by the end of May, that’s all. We’re still waiting to see what he does.

Right now it’s just renamed, he could set it back to Seers easily and nothing would have changed.

64

Oh cool, thanks for replying so quickly @borovan. Mind me asking, what has it been renamed renamed to / where can I find it? (Love the dapp)

  • I hope @marcio comes around (if even necessary if only a name change)
    [/quote]
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https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/sns/u67kc-jyaaa-aaaaq-aabpq-cai

Its just the DAO that is renamed as far as I can tell.

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Yeah right. Twitter is deactivated, dApp down, domain for sale (congrats on your article btw, it helps grasping the complexities of the DAO gov, even as newcomer). I didn’t follow the Seers account too closely the past days, but I saw smth like @marcio writing: “it’s up to X and Y to take care of it now” before it was deleted. Don’t remember the first names, but probably either you and Adam, or the ICP leadership.

I liked betting on Seers. The idea of adding BTC was great tbh. I researched Seers a bit, and saw they churned twice, Social Network → Agent platform → prediction market. Agent platform was still in the description of the DFINITY post, so I was wondering if that was still part of the roadmap/feature set.

I believe it’s quite natural for early blockchain projects to churn multiple times, fast, in the beginning. I personally saw progress on the dApp, and was actually hoping for a mobile app next, also for better retail onboarding (send your BTC to Seersapp, bet there, seamless, like Polymarket).

There are many Bitcoiners esp. in the US and Asia, where prediction markets are super popular.

Equally so, adding further currencies could be a cool way to ramp up reach/scale. To a point where profits from bets could be paid out in Seer optionally (maybe incentivized by top ups/bonuses, more betting power with Seer than BTC incentivizing to hold in Seersapp), increasing the liquidity on the Seer/ICP pair, hence for ICP.

Also, given they were still working on agents, having agents make predictions for you as a user could be a cool feature too.

Finally: the progress of a DAO is always delicate. Quite a balance between fostering/supporting builders and pushing for progress/deployments. As for @marcio / team, I saw this progress, while at the same time, I think it’s cool what you do trying to push members to deliver (yet not aware of all details, should remain respectful).

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I replied but forgot to use the reply-function :backhand_index_pointing_up: