Rewards fell%50

Rewards fell 50%. Can anyone explain what has happened with that modularity update ? Or there is something else which caused this drastic reward cut ?

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Rewards haven’t “fell”, there was a proposal that put an end to the effectiveness of the spam proposals that boosted the A.P.Y. by taken rewards away from inactive participants and given them to active voters. You are now earning the amount that you should have naturally been getting.

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Thank you for the quick response.
May I ask what do you mean by “active” and “inactive” voters.
I assume if my neuron follows other neuron it means “inactive”, is that correct?
And to become active I have to vote manually on each proposal ?
Thanks

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Good question. I wrote this wiki page to help explain, but based off your questions it’s clear I need to edit it (as I did not address your doubts in the wiki):

https://wiki.internetcomputer.org/wiki/Maximizing_Voting_and_NNS_Rewards

Your neuron gets rewards if it follows a neuron which voted on a proposal or voted itself. No extra credit for voting manually. This means if you follow, you trust the neuron you follow to vote.

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Thanks @diegop
Coming back to my original question though.
I have had followed neurons on all topics and was getting X amount of maturity (here I am talking absolute maturity to be clear I’m not confused about recent change) and then after the update I have X - (X*0.45) or something around that.
I am an Active voter based on the wiki page above.
So, the rewards dropped simply because of the number of proposals we all vote on now ? ( reduction in spam proposals)

Sorry @anonymous , I didn’t completely get this: “ by taken rewards away from inactive participants and given them to active voters.”

I feel like a missing an important yet obvious part :joy:

Yes, the simple version is this:

  1. Every day there is a fixed amount of rewards

Before the recent NNS change:

  1. Governance rewards counted for 20x what other proposals did.
  2. Not every neuron was like you so they did not vote on Governance. This meant that neurons like yours and mine who voted actively got more a larger share of the rewards pie.
  3. Spam proposals were created to maximize the 20x weighing.

(Point #3 means that you, me, and others were getting outsize rewards because we voted on governance and others did not. The NNS rewards update changed that).

After the recent NNS change:

  1. Now Governance rewards went back to being the same as other proposals.
  2. This means that even neurons who do not actively, now get larger share of the daily rewards. This means neurons like mine and yours get smaller share of the daily rewards (but still more than those who do Noh vote for governance).

Does this help?

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I understand what’s going on but I also noticed that I’m getting far less than I was getting pre spam.

I do not want to rule anything out.

  • Its possible that there are more ICP staked so that means your neurons get smaller share of pie
  • its for certain there are less rewards since ICP minting decreases over time
  • i assume your neurons are fully voting

However, I prefer we investigate and interrogate to make sure nothing is malfunctioning (always take this stuff very seriously). what kind of drop are you seeing?

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Yeah. If the current apy rate for 8 years as displayed in the dashboard, then the rewards are far off. I would check it out to see what is going on.

I Intend to dive deeper. We take this stuff super seriously as it’s very important

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Can a history be added of daily rewards showing percentages, totals, and proposals involved?

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So if i dont follow any other neurons and do all the voting myself i get more credit = more rewarded?

My neurons follow the Dfinity foundation but im almost everytime voting manually. I did it with the idea, if i dont have internet for some reason, they allways wil vote even if im not there.

But if it turns out that even if i vote manually i dont get extra rewarded, im dumping the “following”.

Can you be a bit more specific about this?

No. Manual votes and votes from following count the same. If i wrote or implied otherwise, that was bad communication on my part. Sorry for vague writing.

The only thing about following is the inverse of what you said… sometimes people ONLY follow neurons (which means they rely on followed neurons to be actively voting). Some people have been surprised when they follow X neuron, but realize X did not always vote.

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Nice idea. Do you mean you would like to see something like this?

August 2, 2022:

  • list of proposals that closed and created rewards (proposals create rewards when they close, not when created)
  • voting power that day
  • Total Maturity

Would that kind of info address your intent? or were you thinking something else?

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Yes - something just like that! Should take care of a lot of the “where did my maturity go” questions and concerns too. Or highlight any issues to more easily track them down.

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Very nice idea. Let me pass it to the IC dashboard folks.

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Update:

After chatting with the IC dashboard folks, It turns out we ALREADY have features that accomplish the intent to answer the question of "Am i getting lower rewards than I should or could?"

(Apologies for not knowing about this earlier)

I will illustrate by grabbing a random neuron from the IC dashboard: 4567192775596144308.

if we go to the neuron page for this 4567192775596144308 you will see: https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/neuron/4567192775596144308.

The image shows that if that neuron had 8 year dissolve, it should yield 0.1 Maturity every day (give or take 5% modulation of course).

How this helps folks

For example, that means if people’s neuron is has expected daily maturity of 0.1 Maturity daily, but the owner of neuron 4567192775596144308 sees their daily maturity averages around 0.05, then the neuron holder knows something is off and can investigate if any proposals were missing.

If the user sees they earn maturity close to their expected daily rewards, then they know that they are maximizing their per-neuron rewards.

indeed, i did the same with my neurons and it turns out I am earning basically the expected rewards.

next steps

It’s clear folks and myself did not know about this nor how to connect the dots here, so we may want to make it more obvious

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Belated THANK YOU @diegop . This covered my concerns thoroughly. I have checked and all rewards check out.

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oh awesome! great to hear

Manual votes and votes from following count the same.

I think that is fair but every time I read that I think that a very small part of the follower’s rewards should go to the neuron being followed. Just as a thank you for the upstream (presumably) doing the hard work of due diligence. The reward needs to be small otherwise people will set up yes bots to automatically vote yes on every proposal. The cost of following needs to be small enough that it just isn’t worth doing something stupid like that just to save money.

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