Thanks @MeneseProtocol, just to confirm, do all of the canisters that you’re decentralising have reproducible builds? Do you also have the final init yaml you’ll be using in the proposal after the syndication period is up?
Yes @Lorimer we are updating the repos accessible to reviewers tomorrow(including your’s), unifying dfx and tool chain usage and will guarantee reproducibility. Same goes for the init file as well
That’s great thanks. Please note that the clock technically starts once the final form of the init yaml is publicly available and announced, and source code is available to reviewers to confirm reproducibility and/or flag any major concerns (if any)
That’s fair enough, it’s all in place, but tbh everyone is just exhausted and can’t look at the screen any longer so tomorrow will do, for now would love if you join the other clock the Hivemind ledger has 14 days from today to collect random materials to secure privacy ledgers that we are launching.
I’d be happy to. Could you explain the purpose of the ceremony? Why wouldn’t a verifiably pseudorandom seed do?
Groth16’s reference string isn’t seeded by a secret; it’s computed from one.
To build it you need scalars τ, α, β, γ, δ in the clear, because the CRS is the group elements g^τ, g^τ2, g^τ3… and so on.
There’s no way to produce the powers of τ without holding τ itself.
So if the seed is public, the scalars are public. Anyone can recompute them, and anyone holding them can forge a proof for a false statement ie mint from nothing, undetectably.
“Verifiable” and “unpredictable” are the wrong properties here. The property required is that the number was destroyed and nobody has it.
A public seed is by construction the
opposite: maximally reproducible.
Okay, thanks. Could you therefore elaborate a little on how the properties you’re after are achieved by the ceremony you’re asking people to participate in?
To be clear, I’m only asking because if I’m going to participate I’d like to have a reasonable understanding of what I’m participating in. I’m also interested to know
You download the key as it currently stands. Your browser rolls a secret number, mixes it in, and throws the number away that’s the simplified version if a single participant in the ceremony is honest we know the key is safe and no one can have a forgery or infinite mint in the shielded ledger
How can a user in the future determine (and verify) that more than one person took part?
Which subnet is being used for orchestrating this? Is it SEV protected or could the NPs be snooping on the whole process?
Why not just randomly generate a number within the subnet but never expose it outside of the subnet?
The scalar is sampled and destroyed in the contributor’s browser, and the only things that ever cross the network are transformed public parameters and a public proof. There is no export in the wasm module that returns the secret
You would never want to generate the secret from the subnet even with threshold, one you move the trust assumption to hardware even threshold could have a trust assumption of node provider collusion to get the shares
You or anyone can cryptographically prove the number of secret contributors each carrying a valid prooof of knowledge over a distinct scalar
A future user just need one participant they can trust for example you can say I contributed at index X and here is the delta hash anyone can check the index and the hash and verify
Okay thanks. Do you know if DFINITY is taking part in this? (the setup ceremony)
We hope so, either as individuals or as an org, there might be some privacy proponents on the team that would want to take part in either case we welcome their contribution and other community members and dapps. Hopefully this will be good for the ecosystem, everyone sees Zcash value now, this enables every asset we bring to have the same value(which is honestly a good property of money to have)
Cool. As this isn’t my area I wouldn’t be confident in the process without asking lots and lots of other questions (including verifying the code that guides the user through this ceremony etc.).
Have you reached out to anyone in DFINITY to ask for their participation?
@rbirkner, do you mind if I ask if you’re planning to take part?
Yes sure fire away, the ceremony coordinator canister is open source, canister is blackholed(it’s a coordinator that’s not holding secrets), you can point you AI at it as well as the Hivemind Shielded ledger and get its feedback and since the shielded ledger is part of the SNS canisters and it’s updated.
yah part of why are posting at DFINITY’s forum is that we hope they do contribute, we did help secure the multi dex with a lot findings(from critical to medium) for solidarity and to support the eco, so yah a little participation would get our spirits up for sure
Thanks. Would you mind sharing the links to the relevant repos etc. here, and the steps to validate/verify the process?
Yah sure everything you need to review our privacy infra plus the running coordinator is here
We left out an Md file for your AI to navigate it easily
He’s right, I’m not the almighty god. Nevertheless, he’s not someone worth listening to in my personal experience
Thanks, will try and check it out after work