IC Wiki Maintenance

[Thyassa]

@katiep

I am consolidating everything into one post so I am not spamming the boards.

There is no entry in the wiki for Internet Computer Explorer, not sure if they changed their name from something else?

https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/provider/i7v7g-cwjtl-gzd2s-nt2ko-4d5su-vh64h-bqu4h-rio26-tbaej-dtj6d-fae

Mary Ren has no wiki entry - https://wiki.internetcomputer.org/wiki/Mary_Ren but is a node provider with no nodes. I believe this may be similar to the Carbon 12/Marc Johnson situation on my earlier post. Possibly moved to Blockchain Development Labs and nobody removed the old NP?

Richard Ma has no wiki entry - https://wiki.internetcomputer.org/wiki/Richard_Ma same deal as Mary Ren. Possibly moved to Blockchain Development Labs and nobody removed the old NP?

Serenity Lotus Limited - Proof of ID has no information about Serenity Lotus Limited other than the words Re: Serenity Lotus Limited at the top. Road Town, Tortola is the largest (capital) town on the island of Tortola so is not an actual address either.
Serenity lotus limited - Internet Computer Wiki @ArtUi Artur, you made the proposal to be a node provider but your name is not listed on the id document or the self-declaration.

[katiep]

They were part of the pre-genesis group that did KYC with us and with Coinbase. That is what was required prior to Genesis. (There was no wiki or forum or anything public at that time. DFINITY handled all of this as part of getting the network started.)

Gen-2 NPs did self-declarations.
Gen-1 NPs who wanted to continue hosting nodes beyond their 48 months were required to do self-declarations, as explained on the forum and the wiki here, so that they followed the new standard.

When the self-declarations were introduced, we already knew that the NPs who were part of the TP1, AT1, SG1, and FM1 data centers would not be continuing, so there was no reason for them to do additional self-declarations. We were already in the process of removing subnets from their nodes in preparation for them to leave the network. You will find that most of the NPs who used to but are no longer hosting nodes do not have self-declarations for this reason. As they aren’t hosting nodes any longer, it does not matter.

PS. I very much appreciate your desire to not spam the boards.

[Thyassa]

ok so the Mary Ren and Richard Ma nodes should be removed as they have moved on right?

We need some clarification here on the intent of the original NPs as it looks like they have consolidated into Blockchain Development Labs.

I have searched for forum names that match their NP names but the only close match is @MagdalenaRichard are you Richard Ma?

[katiep]

Yes, they are part of the additional list that DFINITY mentioned that we would add proposals for removing. We have a backlog of work that we’re trying to catch up on, and this is part of it. At the time that the proposals to remove nodes from those four DCs were made, it was easy for anyone to look on the dashboard and see which NPs were getting their nodes removed.

Yes, there is a self-declaration for Blockchain Development Labs, which Richard Ma is cofounder of (public info on his website). It was not considered by those in charge of finding NPs prior to Genesis to be a problem if someone ran nodes from their company and personally. This is still not considered to be an issue as long as people are transparent about it, which is why we allowed Tina and George to run nodes themselves and also together under a company since that company entity was required in the other country. In their case, we made sure the 42-node limit included the jointly-owned nodes. There was no limit prior to Genesis, though all NPs are limited now, whether those 42 are split between different companies or not. We support a way for this to be included in the decentralization algorithms though, as mentioned in other threads, instead of us manually ensuring it as we have been so far. (It is a lot of work to build the IC and develop all of this!)

[Thyassa]

You ain’t seen nothing yet. I truly believe that the IC is transformative. As someone who grew a company from 0 to 50 million users from 1999 to 2002 (unheard of literally no DB could handle it) I am no stranger to bootstrapping and just getting things done, but corners should not be cut.

The rules are there to protect the community and they need to be adhered to. If you do not have time to sufficiently investigate, the node provider should not be approved. Simple as that. This is not completing a task, it has ramifications that extend far beyond what most people need to deal with. The IC is all about decentralisation. Anyone that works for Dfinity or simply is a fan of the IC should understand and prioritise the core goal of decentalised community control. I do not know or want to declare any malicious intent on behalf of the people I have flagged in this post, but we must set a precedence. Full accountability for all node providers.

[Thyassa]

Aspire Properties is an approved Node Provider with no nodes and no documentation on the wiki (or at least not in the list of node providers - Node Provider Self Declarations - Internet Computer Wiki). @katiep @BrianA I see Brian Arnold applied in 2023 and if you type their name in the wiki URL you get this document. Aspire Properties - Internet Computer Wiki

The link to proof of identity is broken. I cannot find a record of Aspire Properties LLC in Trussville, Alabama (address on self declaration). There is Aspire Realty in Birmingham but they do not do home automation, or investments.

Again is this deprecated?

There is no internet presence for Brian Arnold aside from a photographer and artist - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-arnold-356a21192/

[Thyassa]

ZTLC_PTE Ltd

Again a node provider with no nodes, they actually have two node provider entries, one with (deprecated) after it.

The documentation in the wiki does not seem substantial.

User:ZTLC PTE Ltd - Internet Computer Wiki

On the self-declaration document the details are:
Pearl Wu, 79 Ayer Rajah Crescent, 139955, Singapore

The id document is a different address and does not mention Pearl’s name (or any members of the company) - 64a Pagoda Street, 059223, Singapore

There is also no internet presence for Pearl Wu at ZTLC PTE. The company does exist at the address given for the ID, but there is no association with the person who made the self declaration.

https://sgpgrid.com/company-details/ztlc-pte-ltd

ZTLC PTE. LTD. (201307480H)

The node provider application was made by a user called Olivia, who is not mentioned in the self declaration or the ID.

@Olivia-xiami

[wpb]

Cross posting this here since it is related to Blockchain Development Labs and Richard Ma. The spokesperson for BDL appears to be @Gabriel_Rodriguez and may be able to provide any further clarification that might be needed…

Remove 32 Node Providers

We fully support the ICP community’s commitment to decentralization and integrity. Recently, questions have been raised about certain node providers, including Blockchain Development Labs (BDL). We want to clarify that BDL’s operations have always complied with the rules and guidelines set forth by DFINITY and the NNS. We have participated in the node onboarding and turnover process and welcome constructive discussions on further strengthening node provider governance. However, any allegations o…

[Thyassa]

Ok so as part of a fair review of all the node providers (which I will share later) I have been utilizing many existing sites just to verify that the company exists, the people live in the country they are claiming to pay utilities in etc.

Obviously this is something I hope will be adopted as the bare minimum going forward for any new node providers. That isn’t my call, however, just a recommendation. We do however need some standards, which I am sure will be discussed at another time when additional nodes are required.

Anyway, basically I have just made my own wiki from scratch, but wondered if @katiep would like me to share the information (all publicly available, although some are paid services for business verifications etc) on the IC wiki.

Seems like something that would benefit the whole community in the interests of transparency.

Also, is the IC wiki on a canister? I assume it is, but don’t think anyone actually answered this.

There is also information that I have gathered that link various parties. I am not making accusations in my notes, just saying that x and y are connected, please explain. Again, this seems like information that should be available to all.

Anyway @katiep let me know. Happy to help.

My interest lie purely in keeping true to the ideals of the Internet Computer. Creating a transparent meritocracy.

Also, I will scroll through the working groups once I am done here and dig into it, but why was Matrix chosen to host the NP discussions, rather than the regular channels that the Dfinity team use? Like the forums, teams etc. Seems like it would be good for it to be something akin to the R&D calls as lots of people (especially after attention has been drawn to the NPs) would like to know what is being discussed.

[Thyassa]

I have been reliably informed that the Internet Computer wiki is NOT hosted on the Internet Computer… seems a bit of a no brainer right?

Happy to provide bounties for the following:

• Wiki on chain (no more atlassian - yay!)
• NFT exchange

super easy tasks right

[Thyassa]

In the meantime I have signed up to the existing wiki and will update as much as poss tomorrow. Back to verification checks now…

[Thyassa]

@katiep

Please can you review the edits that I made to the 0X52 entry. Adding basic information that would prove useful (how to contact on forums for example), direct link to dashboard, plus a concise summary of undisputed links.

I would also like to add a section for independent verification. This should prove extra re-assurance to the community as a whole if it is a resource that anyone can add to and list where they found the verification of the NPs identity. All part of transparency and collaboration.

The goal here is not for the wiki to be a witch hunt, but a place of pure simple verifiable truths.

[Thyassa]

Before I go and do the same for the other NPs, I want to make sure that it will get passed, or discuss what you think should not be public on the wiki.

[roald-av8]

Hi Donna (@Thyassa) this looks constructive, thanks for putting in the work. Except for some corrections (see below), I’m fine with this being public and I shared this information earlier in this post.

Corrections:

• “Roald Parmentier from Aviate Labs” —> I co-founded Aviate Labs, but I’m not involved in the day-to-day operations anymore as I started a new (non ICP) startup, I suggest putting “Roald Parmentier is ex-Aviate Labs”
• “Quint from Aviate Labs is also a NP - DeNoDe” —> Quint is NODAO, not DeNoDe (I do not know the owner there), I suggest: “Quint is also ex-Aviate Labs and a NP - NODAO”

Happy to submit these changes to the wiki myself if this is the format we go with!

[Thyassa]

Waiting to hear from @katiep

May be good to link proposals made too so people can more easily keep up to date with the various changes.

[icarus]

Hi @Thyassa just want to say that I agree with this approach to giving our Node Provider wiki pages a consistent layout and adding relevant information that helps the IC community understand who we are and how we operate.

I am happy to have my Icaria Systems Pty Ltd provider page updated like this with added info.

[1eo]

@Thyassa

Wiki on chain (no more atlassian - yay!)

We just hacked a dashboard fully on the IC that keeps track of all the node providers files and rewards: https://2g62z-zaaaa-aaaao-qj6ta-cai.icp0.io/

It also shows which node provider uploaded what file and if the sha256 checks out.

New Node Provider Resource Available

New Node Provider Resource Available We’ve launched a canister https://2g62z-zaaaa-aaaao-qj6ta-cai.icp0.io/ to streamline node provider onboarding through transparency. The platform: Stores all node provider PDFs Validates document hashes Lists rewards from recent cycles Identifies missing documentation Acts as the source of truth New providers can simply upload their required files to this system. Code repository: GitHub - internet-computer/node-providers (by @1eo and myself)

[Thyassa]

So I have done some more work on independently verifying companies and as I haven’t heard from @katiep I will just go ahead and start pasting it all into the IC wiki. As an example here is 0X52. Not picking on you @roald-av8 just alphanumerical.

For reference @Lorimer, I have used the following sites to check UBOs and Companies:

For Hong Kong, China, Korea and Singapore - https://www.inriskable.com/business_info/company

for US - https://www.bizapedia.com/

for Rest of World - https://b2bhint.com/en/

Alternative if nothing comes up - https://www.dnb.com/en-us/

I put the links in that validated, but some required paid membership to get access. I have saved screengrabs of the files should the Dfinity team wish those to be uploaded also.

[Lorimer]

Thanks @Thyassa looks like great progress. Also awesome idea to set up an on-chain dashboard @1eo and @EnzoPlayer0ne!

Great to see hash mismatches and missing documentation from a mile off (we’re looking at you DFINITY Stiftung! )

I’d love it if there were a convenient way to display NPs who have a verifiably high stake in the IC (such as you both). Even if it’s not up for slashing, it takes a hit if the IC is damaged or there’s a loss in confidence (and/or the IC is otherwise unsuccessful long-term).

This has go me thinking - although there’s not a requirement for NPs to be staked, that doesn’t mean that exemplary NPs like that don’t exist. I wonder where the best place for storing verified information like that would be. In the registery canister, or (given that it’s supplementary info) maybe the best place would be a community managed dashboard… Just thinking out loud.

[katiep]

Thanks everyone for your patience while we went through internal discussions, and also while I got caught up on some other workload. (I’m working very long hours right now.)

We are concerned with the precedent of allowing other people to post details on a NP’s wiki page. We would prefer if only NPs update their own wiki pages to include the information that they know to be correct. If members of the community wish to share information that they are finding about NPs, we would prefer such information be stored somewhere else.