How Dfinity is rapidly losing credibility

It’s another weekend where I spent time trying to figure out how to claim my seed ICP tokens with a safe setup as recommended here, with another 18 tabs open atm. My new weekend hobby and I’m not the only one - this topic is most read and commented on this forum by far. At the same time I see no progress on issues that should be prioritised and some even rather trivial.

This post is about what Dfinity’s actions tell about the project and how this project is shooting itself in the foot. This post is written because we ended up with a project that has a pumped valuation, not fully open sourced code (at launch!), centralised governance, is ignorant to community and backers, and restricts token holders to access their tokens. Sure sounds like the one coin to own. This post is written in the hope that Dfinity’s team realises this and corrects their course (and as a much needed rant).

  1. How can a project that claims to build the Internet Computer to rule them all not be able to integrate a hardware wallet, so that token holders can safely claim their tokens (after waiting 4+ years)? Or a web UI? Team of 180 and with deep pockets but can’t get it done? Can you at least check some of the ecosystem solutions and endorse those that are safe?

  2. Why wouldn’t enabling backers to control their tokens be a priority? After all, if it is not difficult to do it then it clearly isn’t a priority. What does this then tell? Either, Dfinity doesn’t care or is afraid we all dump. Or both.

  3. Why have decentralised governance but restrict voting? In Dfinity’s words it has a ground breaking decentralised governance, implemented as liquid democracy. But, again, how can we participate in this liquid democracy if controlling seed neurons is close to impossible? Feels again, well, fake.

  4. Where is blockchain transparency if there’s not even a blockchain explorer? Until 0.7.1. there was not even possible to get even a status reply from a broadcasted tx. Mind you, depends on what you, there are still challenges decoding some status replies. Am I supposed to send withdraw tx into the void? FFS, people are even today asking how to find out number of ICP in their neurons!! EDIT: found explorer here:

  5. What does it say about attitude towards investors if we’re to find out 10 hours before launch that there’s 4 year vesting? You had years to communicate this and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a class action suit somewhere in the making.

  6. Why such radical restriction on ICP circulation? Easier for market makers to manipulate the price?

  7. What role does this forum have if Dfinity’s team are like ghosts? How to withdraw tokens is most commented topic on this forum and even today questions are popping up how to, ffs, even find out how many ICP our neurons are holding!!

Answers to these questions suggest that token price management and profits come first, backers last. This reeks of dinosaur corporate America style. This is not freedom and decentralisation, empty words for Dfinity.

Again, it is not just about ICP (which is turning into a frankenstein of ADA, EOS and XRP - good company!!). Such attitude indicates character and implies mindset towards other stakeholders, and the outlook is not positive. Innovative blockchain devs don’t work for corporate America (see JPM’s Quorum failure). Traders are not excited about token going only to zero, you can’t even short that. And users are where other users are. Right now, the only way for Dfinity to create its ecosystem is to buy it and this is what is being done. However, money can’t buy everything (remember Microsoft’s mobile efforts). Instead they should get the core and existing supporters excited. First neuron, I wanted to spend on Dfinity dapp development.

Honestly, if such downward spiral continues who has the incentive to support and stay on this project?

I don’t want to be part or supporting such project. I invested because I wanted to see a free and decentralised world computer. A big promise steadily turning into a disappointment.

Lastly, I don’t care about empty replies from Dfinity team here. Enable us to securely claim and control our ICP tokens without a CS degree. If you fail at that, then STFU about building an Internet computer because actions speak louder than words and you’re not even covering the basics.


FFS it’s only a month, imagine sold ETH when TheDAO hack happened


It is not about selling ICP at all, I’m very much hodler by nature and invest only in projects I believe in. It is about actions that are quite contrary to decentralised ethos and which might be damaging to the project:

  • we ended up with a project that has a pumped valuation (started with $45bn hyped by media on restricted ICP circulation) which throws very bad light on the project:
  • not fully open sourced code (at launch!) - very unusual for decentralised tech and impediment for onboarding devs
  • centralised governance - it is so difficult to vote with seed neurons, we practically can’t
  • is ignorant to community and backers - no reply on when and how this will addressed
  • restricts token holders to access their tokens

I also get that Dfinity might not be interested in the decentralised space but is making the leap across the chasm towards early majority, and would say that same applies.


ICP is a moneygrab scam project by VCs


There is an underlying current here. I’ve helped a team member figure out how to claim neurons, vote with those neurons, follow neurons, propose for neurons, etc. But what you say is true…it always feels like the tools were written for a PhD in comp sci to use. Useability has not been a priority and that needs to change. All I can tell you is that I’m working on it, the community is working on it, and we’ll get it fixed.

They’ve prioritized the tech and that’s good. It works…there were times when I doubted that it ever would. But now there has to be a rapid shift to usability.


I was an eth seed round participant and when they delivered the tokens you could access them through a GUI. Dfinity has had five years and 200 employees and raised significant sums of money. To claim that they need more time after launching to create a GUI is in my opinion not a valid excuse, given the implications that it was a deliberate decision to make it difficult to claim and sell while someone else was able to sell.

Going forward the larger issue for long term success of the project that needs to change is fostering community goodwill.


Some(many)times posts here make me fear for IC future.
I try to keep in mind development usually comes with needs being exposed by users as you do.

Thanks for the heads-up, hope dev can follow your concerns and I ask you to give them, yet another, chance to work on it because project has long term goals

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Seed investors still made 1800% returns with $60 per icp. We should be happy and calm.

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There are no official support from any community channel. No discord. Official Telgram is muted. And I can only find price discusstions in other community telgrams. I spent several hours trying to figure out how to set up a wallet and stake my coins securely. The so called offical guide is complicated and confusing. Also why do I need a hardware to create an identity??? So many years development, the team can’t even launch an easy-to-use wallet???


I can use NNS with an iPhone so easy


i’m a seed investor. first of all as we cannot sell 96% of our icp so we have not made any crazy returns as making returns means actually being able to recognize a profit unlike as you falsely claim with your forced ignorance of basic finance and accounting principles. lol.

anyway, i’ll see you all at sub $10 cuz that’s where this is headed.

at least learn a little bit about finance and accounting before you spout off with nonsense.

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Well said. I agree 100%. Having invested in the Ethereum pre-sale in 2014, and in DOT and ICP in 2017, I feel dfinity treated its early backers like unwanted children. Are we supposed to vote via the CLI with each single neuron separately or what?

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for now, you can configure 48 neurons to follow one of them and then vote from that one

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This is definitely the weirdest vesting/distribution set-up I’ve ever seen.
The less you contributed per ICP, the sooner you get your tokens.

  • Airdrop had them on day one (1/12)
  • Foundation had no vesting, so day one too?
  • Seed in theory on day one, assuming you had a PhD in ICP command-line tools (1/49)
  • Pre-sale had access to theirs after a month, (1/12)

I don’t know where to start. How do you even come up with a scheme like this? And to add insult to injury, the prevalent narrative in the Telegram group at the time was that is was the VCs who were dumping. How convenient.

I feel totally *ed off with the way ICP was launched. Totally about the $$$… early birds get 100% and everyone else gets bumped. I would rather get rugged by some two bit shtcoin. At least I know its shte! Feel like I’ve spend a fortune to end up with less than 10 ICP… which are worth bugger all. Signing up for the fking ICP newsletter would bag you more than this… and don’t get me started on usability. Trying to get joe-public to understand metamask is bad enough… setting up and logging into ICP is not user friendly at all. Such a shame because I do think this project has potential. I’ll be hodling my ICP… but will never get over the feeling that I was totally shafted.

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The more this stuff keeps happening the more I welcome regulation with open arms. Right now anything goes, but in a regulated world, these people are criminals.

Just had to stop by to say: ICO price of $700.

I guess you have to hold ICP and don’t ever the value of it for the next 2-3 years. In 2023-2024 will be good yield for the wait. In my opinion ICP would be $700 - $1000 by 2024


I almost loosing my 90% on this I buyed at 260$ any now it’s not even 60$
I’m still hoping for the best for this.
This is long term investment so please
Keep calm and trust the process.
good things take time…:crossed_fingers::heart:

FYI: Dfinity and VC rugpulled hence ICP is currently in my shitcoin list

how do I delete my account? you can delete my account as I don’t want to associate myself with a scam project PROOF

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