Creating a proposal

Governance
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I should expound on what the support team member said, for clarity, and add some helpful context that may not be obvious from directly answering your questions.

  1. There is no existing mechanism for the NNS to freeze a neuron. Nor is there a NNS proposal type to do this.

  2. The IC is controlled by the NNS so in theory, there could be a vote to add such a feature

  3. When the support team member said “You could try to submit a NNS proposal to freeze the neuron…”, he was being honest that is the only way to freeze a neuron (adding the feature via vote).

  4. In the history of the IC in 3 years, there has never been a similar vote and that is why the dfinity support member said “the NNS has not accepted any such proposal in the past.” They were trying to set your expectations.

  5. If you still wish to do this, since the ICP id decentralized, you would have to get consensus to do this. One way to do this is via the forum, social media, and even doing NNS motion proposals. Motion proposals do not change the code, but they are an existing mechanism for the community to vote on things other than code updates. Examples include getting temperature checks to see if people are interested in a feature before it gets submitted as a code update, for example.

For context, ICP has never frozen a neuron and this is very much akin to reverting back a transaction… which is very do-able in blockchain (if enough parties agree), but also very rare. Ethereum did something similar in 2016, and has not done it since.

I am very, very upset this happened to you. I would be just as frustrated and angry as you are if it had happened to me. No one is immune to these kinds of attacks as bad actors can be very sophisticated, and i hate when people are taken advantage by these bad actors.

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Thank you for that informative response. That’s the kind of information that I need. And thank you for your understanding and sympathies. Can I ask what you think about the 5 month timeline I have to work with? If I was able to find enough support, do you think there would be enough time to get the change through?
Also, in regard to garnering support, would that just amount to reaching out via forums and social media as much as I can, to present the idea and get feedback? If so, how would I know that I’ve reached enough people to have a good chance of having the majority in a vote?
And, in a motion proposal, what “type” would this kind of proposal be?
Thank you.

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So my last comment to avoid misdirection of the conversation.

I thought about maybe coming up with a way to prove the scenario is real and show documentation of some kind that shows yup this is real and it really happened to you and the respective teams/law enforcement agencies are looking into it.

Then after it’s proved and it gains enough support from members such as @diegop or @lara maybe we crowd fund you, or start a campaign to crowd fund you, then if we raise enough it could go to you. Then somehow once this is resolved legally we could have the stolen icp disbursed back to the donors and each would get exactly what they donated. Idk… I would save and donate ICP for the cause… if demonstrated it’s real of course.

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It would take just 150 of us to donate 10 of our maturity or just ICP to replace what was stolen from you. I feel there’s gotta be 149 others out there willing to with enough proof and ability to facilitate that donation

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fwiw, I would be one the 149.

Now we got 2 :slight_smile:

A blockchain community is more than just the consensus protocol, it is also the community that lives in it. I think this could be my routine “ICP donation” i do in the community which has given me so much. One could argue that this will encourage people to start asking for tokens based on stories… but I would argue, thats already life. People ask, people create stories, and people both choose to donate or not. I just embrace it.

I suspect finding others to donate is much easier than changing the NNS mechanisms.

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Wow! Thank you, Johnathan. Thank you for your support and continued thoughts and concerns. That sure does sound like a great idea. The thing that I think I like most about it would be that it would get more people than just me (and people like you) involved with what’s going on. It would lead them to vote for the development of something to help in these kinds of situations. It would also lead them to keep an eye on the situation, so that it can get resolved. And then they get recompensed. They’d have a vested interest.

Another good aspect of it would be that it is possible to duplicate it. If there happens to be someone else out there who gets ripped off like this, we could do the same thing for that person.

But I would only want to do this if enough people collectively agree.

As far as proof, have you seen everything I posted here:

Evidence of Me Owning My ICP and Evidence of it being Stolen

As far who’s investigating it, the investigator’s name is Michael Stempien of the Stamford CT Police Department. He’s doing a great job with what he has to work with. And he allows me to give him all that I’m looking into, and discovering, as time goes on.

I’ve also sent info out to the FBI, Secret Service Cyber Crime Dept, and the Cyber Crime Department of the State of CT. But my local PD is the head of it all.

I’ve attached an email that I recently sent him regarding the website that I created to display a good overview and evidence. I’ve also attached the transactions from Kraken, a CSV as well as the transactions from the Ledger. They show that I sold all my Cardano, which I held for years. And put it all into ICP.

How else can I prove that this is real? Would you like to see the code from the site that stole it?

Thank you so much for your help. When this first happened I almost off’ed myself. I was so disappointed in what I fell for. I’m still beyond disappointed. The one good thing that I can say is that my wife still loves me. Talk about a true test of love.

Best regards,

Geoff Jacobs

(Attachment website I created to get support for the ICP proposal.pdf is missing)

(Attachment trades (1).csv is missing)

(Attachment ledgerlive-operations-2024.05.04.csv is missing)

Sorry…those attachments…I thought I was replying to a direct email. I was replying to the email that came in, but it was from notifications@

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Thank you for your support!

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I’d be willing to throw in some free labor (hehe) and make a forum post to get a small audience.

If you (we) can come up with a way to show the legitimacy of this situation, and whatever agency/ investigative team you end up working with can give you something that shows this is a real situation or something to legitimize it formally, and that can be confirmed, or ask whatever lawyer DA the formal legal representative to provide something that is okay to share publicly without impacting the investigation or ongoing court process. Tell them the community is willing to help you start a crowdfunding campaign to replace your stolen funds, then in the event they find and track down the individual and 800 years of court battles ends… Donors could/might get it back or its donation (I’d do donation idc this sucks). Otherwise, if it’s a real scenario, and nothing happens it’s a loss we could all just show up 150-strong like you robbed all of us and now we know.

I’m down to help out… I’m down to donate time/ 10+ ICP to help.

That’s why I think if the scenario is real we can come up with a standard of proof per se. It wouldn’t just be stories it would be for circumstances like this. Where this just shouldn’t happen to someone… I would just make it clear people can’t start asking for donations cause they have a story… I would say the story needs to be backed up by something that says this individual is really pursuing this formally and it was a real cyber crime you’re all not being conned or “catfished”.

Shoot boots on the ground let’s go. Call Nev Schulman we’re finding them. This isn’t 15 ICP lol this would be awful.

Let’s see what we can do. All I would have to do is click “Spawn Neuron” and 7 days later I could donate around 12.14 ICP myself. I just would need more technically inclined individuals to come up with some kind of anonymous donation system maybe using already established crowdfunding dapp on the IC or just go old-fashioned gofundme lol

Do not jump or “off” yourself… I’d give you 12 ICP and some change to come off that metaphoric proverbial ledge. Don’t beat yourself up either…

Literally, go watch the 9+ seasons of Catfish the TV show on HULU and tell me you’re the first one who’s been duped on the internet.

  1. let’s get a small team of people willing to donate time.

  2. We need to create the crowdfund itself

  3. someones gotta (besides you) has to run through with your investigator and have you okay with them and coordinate to do like a Facetime or Zoom or something to show the community, hey I’m Michael Stempien of the Stamford CT Police Department and this individual is real and this happened to them. Showing credentials and being able to verify they are law enforcement. Anything they are okay providing for this crowdfunding event that won’t hurt their formal investigation.

  4. that’s gotta be all over your site and the crowdfund itself.

  5. Let’s make a forum post to gauge this audience and try to find others with other social media like Facebook twitter etc., etc… I do not have or use those.

  6. start collecting in multiple forms of currency all converting to ICP at time of donation. Let’s make it clear we are not replacing a dollar amount and raising an ICP amount for more or less USD 15000 ICP is 15000 ICP not 15000 USD

I feel awful so with what free time I have I’ll do what I can if this is something you want to consider.

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I think having someone (or multiple people) reach out to the department and detective/ investigator and having you okay with them to disclose what they feel comfortable sharing. Perhaps a group call with multiple donors, the investigator, and like links proving their credentials and active status as a law enforcement officer or whatever their formal title will be… That would speak volumes IMO

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Wow! I can’t thank you enough. I’ll reach out to the investigator and see what he can give me to prove things. Like I said, I could never thank you enough! Thanks again.
Maybe, if there are 150 ICP holders willing to donate, that would show enough support to create the freezing feature? Which would help in recompensing the donors.

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-stempien-5287aa64

http://www.boardofreps.org/Data/Sites/43/userfiles/minutes/2018/sobs/stempien_sob.pdf

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Police-help-Stamford-man-recover-50-000-15054112.php

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Pair-named-Stamford-officers-of-the-year-12779622.php#photo-15287826

https://www.stamfordct.gov/Home/Components/StaffDirectory/StaffDirectory/1210/445?backlist=%2Fgovernment%2Fboards-commissions%2Fpolice-pension-board

If this is your guy he looks like you got the right help… Just saying… I’d be down meeting him with as many others as it takes to start getting an audience to take it seriously and donate. Even if it means you wait a bunch of 7-day periods for donations of maturity.

You’ll have to excuse my humor or wit throughout this… I’ve been worried myself about being dupped into donating my maturity. So, we are learning together lol It’s not directed at you I just imagine you need to laugh at this point. I mean it is been 27/28 days now.

Take a pooper and breathe lol I’ll stand on the corner collecting spare ICP if I have to :wink:

We still gotta get the a**hole though and let him know he just robbed 150 of us and get them on the phone and be like

Image 2

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I’d be less worried about recompensating donors and more worried about getting them caught and held accountable. That could be out of our hands. It would just be a bonus if he is caught, the ICP or funds returned and then donors get the funds. Maybe they’d leave the funds and make a foundation/ scholarship type fund to keep fighting cyber-related crimes in the community and support the victims of these stupid d holes

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I like your style, Jsull9! And, yes, I do need to laugh. That’s usually how I deal with life. But, up until now, laughing at this was not even close to being possible. So thank you.
I would be focused on getting this guy and holding him accountable for the rest of my life.

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Let’s connect via DM’s and I’ll just share everything I find and we can try to get started on a forum post or something just to get the ball rolling… Connecting with them directly might take time…

I think we can at the least start working on the next forum posts for crowdfunding, or finding individuals in the community with the technical skills to create preferably a simple anonymous donation function. I’m checking out https://funded.app/ as we speak to try and set up a little something something lol Assuming they (your investigator) get back to you soon we can just throw it in the crowdfund and the forum post and just start trying to widen the audience from there. If we can get a few of the right people to share it and see the validity I think we could come up with it. Even if it’s micro-donations or over the next 6 months or longer. I know longer is out of the timeframe and then he could cash out… but if we just let it ride at least there’s a chance I know I’d throw in more than once so

Let’s connect and give it the old college try…

I wonder if we could get 150 to donate and then have him be charged with 150 counts of whatever, or essentially say he robbed not just you but then everyone who donated. Really give our government the chance to earn our annual taxes lol

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That sounds great. Let me know when you’d like to connect via DM’s. Thank you!

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I’ll collect what I can tonight and get back to you tomorrow for sure… Again, I’m really sorry this happened.

oh, there is this too… its darker but just look at what moment of confusion, stress, misdirection, and malicious intent led some other victims of crueler crimes. Watch Don't Pick Up the Phone | Netflix Official Site

The brain is weird. Remember to be easy and breathe tonight…

ROFL I don’t know math or overlooked a 0 in your Original Post its 1500 people not 150. Nbd…

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Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you. And thank you for your sympathies.

I’ll have to check out that series on Netflix. I like learning from stories like that.

Thanks again!

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There’s an ICP enthusiast and influencer who’s been very helpful and supportive of me. For which I’m very grateful. He’s mentioned that there’s already app that we may be able to use. https://funded.app/
Do you have any experience with it?

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I’ve been thinking about what you’ve suggested. And how about this? What if we were to ask ICP holders who are interested in helping to let us know. And then, at a certain point, we would have a solid number. And then, once that’s been established, all of the people who put their hat in the ring would be able to vote as to whether they want to do this, or not. That way, if there’s only 25 people, and it doesn’t look likely, and the cost would be too much per person, then it’s not happening. But if there’s a large amount of volunteers and the cost is not too much per person, then the participants would likely to be more comfortable with it. And their vote would reflect that.

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I just started poking around on funded last night. I created a temp. Twitter and am just walking through the process to see how complicated it would be. I struggle with the donations going to a wallet attached to any individual. I wish it were a community dao situation that required a few people to sign off on and no one person has access to it. Like the nuke football codes lol just cause I don’t want anyone else stealing from you… I also like your idea of having a pre vote or something to see how many people are interested and willing… cause in funded I could make several tiers of NFTS to have purchased but I want to make sure we do the math right wink wink nudge nudge John ahem 15000 not 1500. Also, I want to double check that no one person has to first pay taxes on donations then donate. I’d hate to setup the crowdfund in a even a trusted member and have all these donations be stuck to their SSN or taxable events and then have to either take money out for taxes or pay the taxes themselves. That would be a tough burden… unless of course it end up being you in control and the taxable event occurs on you (if agreed). Maybe you ask your tax advisor or investigator if this type of thing would create a taxable event. I would hate to end up having you be overtaxed or incurred a tax bill that just eats at anything donated.

This project/ circumstance in particular is honestly an amazing learning experience especially with what I personally am trying to create down the road. If for this scenario we can finagle a good anonymous system it would really help me make the next move on my long term project. So, this is really a needing out scenario for me.

Also, I’m taking serious notes of how even an experienced developer or investor like yourself could be manipulated and I’m using this as an opportunity to come up with better practices myself.

I think moving forward, you’re right, we should do a community vote or get some feedback from well known members and ask if they’d be kind enough to help share and legitimize the fundraiser. Especially if those individuals get a chance to physically see the investigator either on a recorded message or something and we can all validate this experience happened and is real. Then have the more prolific members help (if they offer or are comfortable doing so).

Then we should get another person or two with some free time to maybe pitch on the technical side of things, maybe someone with some creative talent? Probably not the biggest concern… and then a small group meeting or on here somewhere to coordinate together and just jump right in.

How do you want to start the initial conversation or first survey of people interested or willing to take part if/when all the formal proof or investigator does the video or whatever…? We could do a forum survey or something similar up to you…