Who allows DFINITY employees to represent ICP officials?

Let me be clear @ysyms ,

  • I’m the owner of the ICP Discord. You know who I am. You can address my name directly. That would be a nice manner.
  • I removed “Official” from ICP Discover a few seconds after having a call with @diegop . My action has nothing to do with your post on this forum, or your suggestion to me on this topic a few days ago. Yes I let you know on Telegram and said thank-you for your suggestion (I generally thank everyone who tries to give me suggestions). I didn’t change the server name because of you. Just so that we’re clear. You don’t have to take credit for something that had nothing to do with you. A colleague showed me your post here hours later I already changed the name.
  • As @diegop said, if you don’t trust the people in DFINITY or the tech we are building, feel free to join other blockchain ecosystems. Nobody is forcing you to stay here. Your hanging out in IC is turning into a tortuous story that is consuming many hours for many people who could have spent their time in much more productive way or more meaningful questions.
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In sum: under the control of NNS, the operation of DFINITY does not change at all; it just needs an official NNS approval in the final.

You can reject anything if you want. But if you can change your mind for a while, you will see the beauty of this idea.

@wpb Do you know why IC can’t get rid of the accusation of centralization? They even told me that I should leave IC if I don’t believe in DFINITY. Ha ha
this values are going to reshape the Internet, is it to return to feudal society?

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Then why can you represent the official?

Technical proof of decentralization? neither the operation from the node machine nor the on-chain governance system nor the degree of dependence on DFINITY can prove that IC is a public blockchain

All I know is that DFINITY is building a public blockchain

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I was also astonished at the response. Dfinity appears completely blind to its deficiencies. I have a whole thread about issues with transparency with which nobody from the Foundation has engaged:

They have no decentralization roadmap, no transparency roadmap, no roadmap to transition away from Dfinity’s hegemonic control over the protocol. Read through Dominic Williams’ 20 year roadmap and there is no mention of any of this. They seem to really believe that because ‘the tech is really good’ everything else can just be wished away, including the erratic behaviour of their leader.
I have also been told to go elsewhere by a Dfinity spokesperson, but I won’t. I have a fair amount staked in the protocol and I will stay and push for good changes as best I can, and so should you, @ysyms

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Well this is where I think you and I have a disagreement on tone, not substance.

@zire literally wrote:

I removed “Official” from ICP Discover a few seconds after having a call with @diegop .

Meaning I agreed that term “official” was not right, so @zire (Herbert) changed it. No harm, no foul. I have certainly written many things which were incorrect and then corrected them.

My disagreement is on tone. If your post had said “I dont think this is the right word,” I would have agreed. Instead it goes off about dfinity employees technical acumen. I think that this feedback on your communication style and how even when I agree on removing the word, the tone was unnecessarily purist or reactionary.

Further piece of context:

While I am on the camp that the word “official” was wrong, I think it is worth understanding Herbert’s intent, and more directly, his inspiration. There are a few blockchains that have “official” discords. He wanted to create a similar lightning rod for community…

… Now you may say, “Why can Herbert create an official discord?” and the answer is honestly the inverse of what you assume. Anyone can create a discord channel that claims to be the “official BTC” , “official Eth”, “official ICP”, etc… discord channel. It is a protocol. A channel or discord server is only as official as people are willing to concede to it such status.

The question is NOT “why did Herbert get right to put the word official?” … the question is more “Why do you think it is the official one? I certainly do not. That is why I told Herbert and he removed it.”

In blockchain protocols, it is up to the community to emerge the channels or leaders it wants to raise. In the same way I can call myself “King of Bitcoin” and create “official BTC discord.”

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Of course, you can create official XXX, you can create BTC official or you can create APPLE official GOOGLE official, but they have the same point that they are all scams

I do not want to spend much more energy on THIS thread. But I can tell you @tsetse that I certainly SAW the earlier thread, brought it to up many leaders at DFINITY, and we took it a feedback for things to work on. The only reason no one from Foundation has not replied is my fault. I told people “I got this”, but have been wanting to reply with something substantive.

In hindsight, I should have at least replied acknowledging that we are reading it actively to see where we can improve.

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Not quite.

Google and Apple are companies. They have a legal right to say “this is NOT the official discord channel”.

With blockchains, anyone can create such channels and it is up to the community to decide depending on traction. It does not make them scams necessarily.

But regardless…this is a perfect example of what I am referring to:

  1. I cited that Herbert changed wording because I suggested it
  2. You ignore that

It would have been better if you had written, "I am glad you also agreed and he changed it. Next time I will assume good intent when asking." There are many faults or bugs, treat things as bug reports and less like bad intent… makes it easier to for folks to fix them.

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So DFINITY is guiding the community to recognize DFINITY as the official official of the ICP blockchain

I do not read Chinese so it could be some miscommunication, but I literally wrote the OPPOSITE of what you just wrote. I literally wrote that we should NOT nominate this channel as “official”. thats why I suggested Herbert we change the copy (before you wrote this dev forum post).

Isn’t it, in the case that ICP is completely dependent on DFINITY, DFINITY creates ICP official community and promotes it on DFINITY official Twitter

Even said that if you don’t trust DFINITY, you should leave IC

What do you propose? that DFINITY NOT promote the IC?

If you will complain anytime DFINITY creates channels or spaces to discuss ICP, then what do you propose?

DFINITY twitter also promotes multiple other community projects and spaces.

I do not understand the outrage at all.

Don’t change the point of the question

I am honestly confused as to what you are arguing. Is this thread not a non-issue?

This is what happened:

  1. Someone wrote X
  2. I did not like X
  3. You do not like X
  4. X was changed

This is what a healthy feedback loop is.

It seems we are stuck in:

  1. You want to discuss X
  2. I say “I also didn’t like X and X was changed, so whats the point?”
  3. GOTO 5

Also X is not completely changed

Now THAT is useful feedback. I was under the impression it was. Can you point out where it was not? That would help a bunch.

it’s an internal issue at DFINITY, I’m curious if everyone at DFINITY thinks they should leave IC if they don’t trust DFINITY and think that’s how public blockchains are supposed to be