Thanks @krzysztofzelazko for this very fair take on events. I should add that CodeGov is not quite as “top-down” as has been portrayed. @wpb administers the team but always consults the group on team decisions and follows the group opinion. He is also able to cast a manual vote for the CodeGov neuron, which has been a helpful fallback if someone is unavailable to vote on time or has cast a vote that they then wish to change. My personal preference is for this way of managing things, whereas @Lorimer and others have preferred to have a decentralised neuron and automated systems, which is a choice I totally respect.
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There hasn’t been a single new node added to the ICP ecosystem since CodeGov and Aviate started proposal reviews in Season 1. All nodes existed well before we ever became aware that a grant would be offered. Since we started these proposal reviews, there has been an substantial improvement in node provider decentralization. We helped enforce the NNS adopted requirements that node providers with too many nodes transfer their nodes to new node providers. It’s a shame you have this much influence over the ICP ecosystem and you truly don’t know what you are talking about. Why DFINITY leadership listens to you is a mystery.
I have too much skin in the game. I doubt I’ll be going anywhere any time soon.
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Instead of those messages, maybe Dfinity could post something regarding the new election ?
The lack of communication from Dfinity is actually crazy, we will have soon the new proposal and we still dont know who will be involve in this review, season 1 or season 2 peoples ?
Like, we have an Application Canister Management to review : https://nns.ic0.app/proposal/?u=qoctq-giaaa-aaaaa-aaaea-cai&proposal=138188&actionable and nobody knows who’s supposed to review this one…
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My stance is that publishing detailed reviews on the official DFINITY forum should be a compensated effort by DFINITY itself. Until a decentralized system rewards this crucial work (which we need urgently) we should only share general guidance publicly and cast our votes for network security. Our detailed (not-critical) findings should remain private until proper compensation is established. The current lack of clear communication from DFINITY on the review process only validates this approach.
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Nobody is receiving a grant to review this proposal because it is Application Canister Management. Grants for this topic start with Season 2. Anyone is free to do it, but they are not getting paid. The start of Season 2 pay period will be announced soon, but it will likely start on the 15th of the month. My best guess is that it will start Sept 15, but it’s possible it won’t start until Oct 15 if DFINITY needs more time to organize the new grant distribution.
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I didnt knew that, thanks for the info!
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Hi Dfinity / @cryptoschindler
I noticed that in the recent reviewer elections, DFINITY voted for the same entities across multiple proposal topics. This seems to go against the published guideline (highlighted in your own announcement) which stated that you may deprioritize voting for the same entity across different topics to support a more distributed and representative reviewer set.
Could you clarify why this principle wasn’t followed in this election?
- Was there a specific reason why decentralization and diversity of reviewers was not prioritized in this case?
- Or does this mean the guideline is more of a soft preference rather than a firm principle?
As a community member, I think understanding this decision-making process is important to preserve trust in the fairness and transparency of elections.
Thanks for clarifying.
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In response to all the CodeGov related nonsense (click to expand)
Many reasons, which I’ve posted about in numerous places already. Wenzel has deleted a WaterNeuron channel on OC that had a lot of the information (he has admin privileges there). I firmly believe that CodeGov in it’s current form is extremely unhealthy for the IC and I’ll leave it at that.
Just the idea of that undervalues everyone else in the group, and the reality that we’ve enforced by smart contract and threshold consensus. I could get run over by a bus tomorrow and CO.DELTA would continue operating without a hitch. I have absolutely no leverage or power over any other reviewer in the group, nor would I want that. That’s not why any of us are here, nor why we co-founded CO.DELTA.
You’ve not be around long enough to know what you’re talking about. You remind me of me roughly a year ago. Wenzel reserves the right to do whatever he wants, even if it’s in contrast to earlier promises to the community. The sooner you appreciate that the better. Tomorrow you could highlight a bug in an SNS that personally benefits Wenzel not to resolve (but rather exploit). He would happily use the VP, status and following you are helping him acquire to try and block the fix for that bug getting deployed, and make it difficult for you to receive your bug bounty (unless you spend time asking him nicely to support you). ← true story (among numerous more)
At the end of the day, this is about DFINITY pouring ICP resources into bolstering the voting power of an individual who could get hit by a bus tomorrow or his account hijacked, making CodeGov and its expensively acquired following compromised moving forward. Or he could sell the neuron once it’s powerful enough, or misuse it in any way he wishes. Coupled with the voting power he can unilaterally trigger via Synapse (without followees being aware of this danger) the network gets closer to a potential Sybil attack via seemingly distinct governance entities. How many other entities does Wenzel secretly control? - evidently he wouldn’t tell you, now nor in the future.
Regardless of what I think (that’s not important at this scale), what’s important is what the stakers on the NNS think and what they have clearly signalled, even when you factor in the benefit of the doubt and negate the influence of a whale (as illustrated here).
Note that CO.DELTA could easily split itself into groups of 3. We’re the largest team in Season 2, and we’re the only collective who has put significant effort into ensuring 100% decentralisation. We checked ahead of time how best to proceed. CO.DELTA isn’t a concentration concern, but CodeGov certainly is. I suspect this, among other aspects, were factored into the NNS outcome, before DFINITY overrode it to put CodeGov back into power (prior to which @zenithcode and @ritvick were clear favourites).
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I think the voting process was spoiled by confusion and voter fatigue from the start. We could really do with a fresh set of clean proposals next week, clear from the various duplicates that needed rejecting, and the huge amount that voters needed to consume all in one go (some they were supposed to reject, some were up to them, it’s no surprise there was inconsistency). I think it’s reasonable to expect that this had an impact on how everything unfolded.
For avoidance of doubt, I call for a recount.
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The decentralization or centralization of co.delta and CodeGov is irrelevant. We both help decentralize the IC because we are independent known neurons actively participating in the NNS. Each has a different approach that is appealing to each of their contributors and stakeholders. Neither is more right or more wrong than the other. We are simply different.
The grant program does not put grant recipients in power. It does give grant recipients a voice, but that voice needs to be reliable, credible, and sensible. DFINITY has observed time and time again that CodeGov meets these criteria and their vote is a reflection of that confidence. The power still resides with DFINITY. The NNS vote goes as the DFINITY vote goes on all of these topics. They wait for feedback from the community and take our opinion into consideration, but the final decision always rests with DFINITY when they vote with their own convictions on each proposal.
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This is known to be an undesirable status quo, and this initiative is meant to be working towards addressing it.
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This is very off topic, and I don’t think it’s true.
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Not by YOU ! Standing in the way of everything Dfinity agreed upon without asking for your permission.
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