The Other side of the Token

Governance
1

The Financial Review claims that:

The average salary of a CEO not-for-profit sector is $133,260 while general managers earn a base salary of $124,819 on average and finance managers $108,937

They also receive paid junkets and costs. They deserve it, right.

As a volunteer I found that the management salary earning side with not-for-profit organizations would call on me to work long hours, disregard personal safety, let me pay for my own costs and stand back while I did the work and always ready to put me back in my place.

Although I did receive free t-shirts with their marketing all over it.

Here I am again

  • I pay for the cost of ICP, in return I get voting power

  • Encouraged and marketed to buy more ICP for extra voting power

  • Make myself available 24/7 to vote or follow others who receive salaries

  • My purchase of ICP is then locked up so I cannot take my funds back

  • Encouraged or marketed to provide funding to the future celebrities, billionaires and non-for-profit organizations of these projects being built on the IC

  • In return I get more voting responsibilities to run and build these funded website owners for their success, these legends of the future and their websites so they can run them down with their bad behavior.

ICP was never about investment return but model on the non-for-profit model and the neuron owners are volunteers, if you don’t believe me then watch this.

The NNS then uses the Inflation model to control and correct the price, neuron owners pay for costs and funding, work long hours and yet to see the free t-shirt without any financial return, receiving more ICP is just more voting power and so is everyone else, so not really.

The inflation control on the NNS is modeled on the poverty of most poor countries that have no income, plenty of outgoings and no future as it is ongoing forever, as are the salaries for the not-for-profit organizations.

If the price of ICP goes too high then you create, new ICP out of thin air to flood the market, with no market cap you can control the price, always and forever.

If the price goes down then too bad, you can always buy more voting power and take over the web3 world.

I have accepted that my neuron is worthless, that I have lots of work to do or be called a dead neuron who I think had it right, you have already got my funding to fund the future celebrities, billionaires and non-for-profit organizations of these projects do I need to work 24/7 as well!

Are we really replacing Centralized with decentralized or has it just been remodeled for the poor and lowly to pay and work harder for the rich?

An investor on the stock market would receive a dividend each year which is outside of the cost of your shares and its price volatility and is a true return on investment as you do not have to buy more shares and you can cash it in to buy yourself something pretty.

Neuron owners do not receive a dividend but we should, seeing I have locked my neuron forever, working 24/7, should I not receive some return, we the neuron owners are the only ones not receiving anything.

I have some ideas but I personally do not think anyone is interested as you are very happy being a volunteer.

Now I do understand that this project needs all the volunteers it can get to fund the future celebrities, billionaires and non-for-profit organizations of these projects on the IC and DFINITY needs a whole lot more of us volunteers the poor and lowly (Neuron Owners), if you don’t have them then the non-for-profit organizations and followed teams would not have salaries, how sad is that?

We the neuron owners do have the power on the NNS when DFINITY gives us the power to pay ourselves a dividend, maybe not right now but part of a future agreement that as the success of the IC grows then we would get that dividend to reward the poor and lowly volunteers on the NNS for their 24/7 participation and funding for the success of DFINITY, followed teams, IC and future celebrities, billionaires and non-for-profit organizations

Having a future agreement for a dividend for the future could reward both sides as the poor and lowly volunteers on the NNS may invest more and fulfill the needs of the DFINITY project.

Oh, be careful and look out for the Treasury to resurface to steal your ideas and make a claim to send their funding to the moonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn for more project funding.

Everyone needs your money and your time but they do not care about you till they need something.

1 Like
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what kind of “work” do you do 24/7 as neuron owner? isn’t it just a few clicks here and there, to vote for proposals that you personally care about?

Regarding this

I guess you meant with no max supply :slight_smile: . But ETH has no max supply either, did you know this fun fact? what are your thoughts about eth and its infinite supply, I’m just curious?

new ICP out of thin air to flood the market

well the node providers spend $$$ monthly to maintain the network, shouldn’t they get some rewards like the miners get in pow networks? isn’t btc/eth/monero minted from ‘air’ when miners get rewards, how is that different? (i refer to old pow eth in this case)
Sell it on the market or not, is a node providers decision, like the miners, so I don’t see what’s the point of this rant, you basically posted to valid concerns or issues - all described seems totally fine and “business as usual” to me, as a newcomer to this project, so what’s you’re pissed about? :sweat_smile: (if it’s “expectation vs reality” issue, of ‘wanted to get rich quick, but ICP was the wrong tool for the job!’ then it’s your personal investment practices DYOR issue and nothing related to the project IMHO, I’m sad it didn’t make you/us/everyone rich and probably won’t make rich in the future, but I think this project was meant for running a decentralized infrastructure for developers and not exactly in order to make anyone rich, so apologies for the inconvenience :sweat_smile:).

1 Like
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Do you know when to vote for the proposal that you personally care about, are you given a time and the day to vote, are you pre-warned about an upcoming vote of any kind, just this morning when I woke up and started my 24 hr workday on the NNS, 4 proposal were executed, didn’t need me at all, they never have, just need my funding, the proposal are nothing that needed my attention and is really just a deflection so if I don’t monitor the NNS 24/7 then I would miss out on extra voting power so then I have to use the alternative.

THE NNS
Following allows you to delegate your votes to another neuron holder. You still earn rewards if you delegate your voting rights. You can change your following at any time.

So I do have an option to retire and let Following do the work for me but then I see the this forum criticize those who follow and call me names like, dead neuron, that I should lose my extra voting power and they be given to those who monitor the NNS 24/7 to vote and be an active neuron member.

Just a few clicks, really, so you understand all the new terminology and do not need to read the Governance policies, the roadmap and all the information they provide for you to understand, just a few things to do while you’re waiting on the next proposal that you’re interested in, whenever that is.

I guess you meant with no max supply :slight_smile: . But ETH has no max supply either, did you know this fun fact? what are your thoughts about eth and its infinite supply, I’m just curious?

Never bought any ETH, yes, no max supply, have listened to the constant FUD and not that interested, seems to need lots of support from others like IC to make it work from the many malfunctions it was designed with.

well the node providers spend $$$ monthly to maintain the network, shouldn’t they get some rewards like the miners get in pow networks? isn’t btc/eth/monero minted from ‘air’ when miners get rewards, how is that different? (i refer to old pow eth in this case)

Never said that they didn’t, just pointed out that the only people not receiving any rewards and voting power is not rewards are neuron owners, please point out for me where I am not just being taken for of a ride by being baffled by the BS jargon of this new technology and have written this discussion in plain english the other side of the ICP token that the smoke and mirrors provides no rewards but interestingly you have divert the conversation to some minor points but you obviously agree on the mayor points as by your statement.

Thank you for dismissing my time and investment into this project as being stupid and pointing out that this was fud all along, just more of the same.

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Just while my attention was diverted from my 24/7 watch I see 3 more proposal went through without any need from me, did you get the memo? just as well I am following and received the extra 0.0001 voting power.

Sorry forgot to mention I was just rewarded by this forum like a child with a my

First Emoji
This badge is granted the first time you add an Emoji to your post thumbsup. Emoji let you convey emotion in your posts, from happiness smiley to sadness anguished to anger angry and everything in between sunglasses. Just type a : (colon) or press the Emoji toolbar button in the editor to select from hundreds of choices

sorry would give you the thumbs up but have to go and find out how to do that

5 
DFINITY
Voting Rewards

Anyone can stake ICP inside the Network Nervous System (which governs the Internet Computer) to earn new ICP in the form of voting rewards. When ICP is staked, it creates a neuron that can vote on proposals that update, manage, and configure the network, which are executed automatically. Neurons can be configured to vote automatically by following other neurons.

Not true, only approved teams can.

Learn More
Anyone can participate in the governance of the network by staking ICP utility tokens (ICP tokens), and earn rewards that are as high as 28.9% on an annualized basis (as of June 8, 2021).

Not true
I have snippy this morning 28/12/2022

I have a neuron with less than a 100 days left till my anniversary and the % is much lower than the estimated 18.4% that it states on the governance dashboard.

Which I have also snipped so which miss information is true.

Oxford Dictionary
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

Service - 24/7 work needed
Effort - sarcasm for everything I do
Achievement - received emoji and more voting power just like the other 435’376’975 voting power, so not really.

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That would only happen if you aren’t voting on all proposals.

1 Like
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if it’s the case, then it’s a very bad situation, because there’s zero chance that aaaalll staking users are qualified enough to even understand all proposals, not even talking about making the right decision during voting. are we all Einstein or Cryptography nerds, or what? real voting makes sense by people who are actually qualified to understand (at least!) what they’re voting about, and in best case by people who can also make good decisions (and these we can count on fingers of one hand, in each industry… that’s why CEO/CTOs of large enterprises are paid huge salaries and get lured from one company to another, and even then, the “best of the best” are making mistakes like Nokia :sweat_smile: . So how do we want normies to vote for something and those votes be actually good direction for whatever they’re voting for? normies like me and you should delegate our voting power to professionals or at least those who show that they understand what they’re doing and have proven to make good decisions, then it’ll be a nicely working real democracy, and voting can’t be faked cos it’s on chain, so at least it’ll be transparent of who actually has more support of the public and who doesn’t, Putin comes to mind :smile:).

8

well yeah I didn’t try to argue with you, just said IMHO this project is not a guaranteed get rich quick crypto from all I’ve seen so far, it is more aimed at people who want to solve challenges of decentralized applications being truly independent.

And solve censorship, but as we saw with Mario canister that caused a node provider to get sued, there are difficulties to tackle and possibly it will take many years to find the right balance of censorship resistance plus to not become a dark-web equivalent and empower all the criminals of the world by this tech.

regarding neurons and staking, APY, rewards, my advice is to get a job for most people who try to make passive income lol, because there’s so much work has to be done in the world to make it a better place, so I’m not too fan of all the ‘passive income / retire at 30 / moon lambo’ movement :-1: . It’s pretty sad honestly that people who are not qualified and also not smart enough to be moving large sums of money around, are getting rich with BTC/NFTs/alts, because many times they have no idea how to manage it and will either lose or buy some lambos and penthouse in the Bahamas… well good for them, if the money ends up in real estate and cars it’s not too bad - business for luxury car/watch/yacht makers :smile:. But a bit worried it can end up also topping up the dark web reserves, on the wrong side of the dark web :sweat_smile: which is kinda sad. There’s a lot of good to make in the world to improve lives of people, that’s what we should focus at. vs pocketing value as much as possible, leaving our future generations to be slaves of the dollar/btc whatever they’ll be slaves of.

9

if you look at it from pure income perspective, in dollars, then maybe you’re right. but they never stated that staking or voting is for the sole purpose of generating income, I don’t see such things in the docs, it only says that allows to participate in voting in order to have real democracy on chain, smth like that, so I’m not sure why you’re mad at them, it’s an expectation vs reality issue as it seems, because nobody tried to sell us “you’ll get so much rewards if you stake, 20% APY !” nope, nowhere. You assumed it’ll generate money but it does not. I agree their terminology and concept itself is extremely complicated, that’s true. But also I’m not sure if there’s a way to make it simpler, it’s a really new concept of running independent cloud computing infra with so many possibilities, and complexity is inevitable (imagine ETH and smart contracts when they first published their docs and concepts - it blows ones mind :exploding_head: during the first months of trying to grasp what it is and why one needs it)

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ahaha lol, the forum btw is not their proprietary one, it’s a standard open source engine called Discourse (discourse.org), and yeah the intro is annoying because any time you sign up for a new forum it takes you through the tutorial of quoting/smileys/etc’ by the bot script :smile: even if you already know it all.

11

Thank you all for your comments and I would like to wish everyone a happy new year and will look forward to the new discussion next year.