After reading the comments, my conclusion is that without a thorough study and conditioned by the desire or fear of attracting more participants, it does not seem to me the way in which the IC should act. Perhaps later, if we reach a deflationary scenario, we can address the issue. My vote is no, and I believe that the 8-year-old gang will do the same.
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To lower the barrier of entry for new stakers and enhance the viability of liquid staking protocols
Both of these are misleading:
- Liquid Staking Tokens (LST) allow new stakers to stake for 1 minute if they want to. Buy the token and then sell it.
- LST are not less viable by keeping 6mo minimum dissolve delay. There are other ways to make LST protocols. The only reason you would need 3mo minimum dissolve delay is to auto stake user assets, both legally (with consent - a recent CEX feature called virtual crypto wallets, where you opt in by clicking ‘OK’ in a popup) and illegally. Given the track record of less reputable exchanges over the years (ICP is on ~140 CEXes), some will be very likely staking user assets without consent. This will potentially make nICP a highway between CEXes for legal and illegal user asset staking. This change and down pressure it causes on price will be in favor of node providers, who will mint higher amount of ICP rewards. WTN 51%+, Synapse 51%+ and CodeGov 51%+ seem to be predominantly protecting the interests of these, which we named ‘The inverse group’ - mostly made out of people who don’t have significant amount of 8y ICP neurons, but get paid $ amounts of ICP monthly, node providers, reviewers, hubs, other services, possibly some employees etc. Which allows them to profit from such scheme, because they have almost no skin in the game.
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Additionally, the 10% canister neuron limit will not limit LST protocols. Once they grow up to the limit, they can add more ICP neurons using HTTP outcalls and CK.
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I’ve seen some concerns in this thread about the proposal to reduce the minimum dissolve delay, and I wanted to share a few thoughts.
First off, this isn’t about changing the rules out of nowhere - it’s just the final step in implementing a motion that was already passed by the community almost a year ago in a motion proposal. The NNS is a living governance system, and part of staking ICP means accepting that parameters can change over time through community decision-making.
As for the argument that this mainly benefits platforms like WaterNeuron - I actually think the opposite might be true. A shorter minimum dissolve delay could make it more attractive for people to stake on their own, instead of going through liquid staking protocols or centralized exchanges like Coinbase or Binance. That could lead to more decentralization, not less.
And of course, if you’ve staked for 8 years, that still gives you more voting power and rewards. This change doesn’t take anything away from long-term stakers. It just opens the door for more people to get involved without such a big initial commitment.
All in all, I think this is a healthy move for the ecosystem. It respects past decisions, invites new participation, and potentially reduces centralization. Seems like a fair trade-off.
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Ok why don’t we do another motion proposal to ignore the first motion proposal.
Yes, it was a year ago. Since then we’ve found out that Leo and Enzo have done all sorts of shady stuff and are bad actors backed by David Fisher and Wenzel.
Alice - that’s Enzo and Leo
Boom DAO defence, stealing $100k, - that’s enzo and leo too
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This is not true. The rewards minted for voting are fixed in total. The more auto user staking in 3mo neurons, the less rewards 8y neurons will get.
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This i did not know either and is concerning. Again, it feels like 8 year stakers are gonna get the short stick all for short term gains. Why cook up a 20 year roadmap when every year you wanna thinker with the tokenomics…
This is a NO!!!
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Bro, if people now have a different view, they can bring it up in a new motion. But pretending like this wasn’t clearly voted on before doesn’t really help the conversation.
I don’t care about defending any specific actors or protocols either. What matters to me is the broader impact of this change.
Lowering the minimum dissolve delay doesn’t break the system. If anything, it gives new users a chance to stake directly, without locking up their ICP for half a year right from the start. That’s not a bad thing. In fact, it might help reduce centralization by making it easier for people to avoid custodial staking or liquid staking platforms altogether.
3 month neurons still get much lower rewards than 8 year ones. The incentives haven’t changed. Long-term staking is still rewarded the most, and always should be.
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Currently, 8-year neurons must stake for 16 times longer than the minimum duration to earn 2× the rewards.
This proposal changes it so they must stake for 32 times longer to receive the same 2× reward. But by doing so also reduces their rewards. Probably from 14% to ~10% over time
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The 8 year bonus doesn’t really mean much to these people. They have no skin in the game other than the VP they take from other people under false pretenses.
This’ll just get buried though, people won’t see the messages that actually mattyer.
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His name came up a LOT when we were researching the bad node providers. Poland seems to be some hub of shell companies.
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That’s a pretty heavy accusation, but I think it misses the bigger picture.
Also, suggesting an entire country is somehow responsible because a few names show up in your research? That’s just lazy generalization. But this proposal was passed by the community near a year ago, and it’s being implemented as agreed.
If people want to re-discuss it, anyone can bring a new motion. But let’s not turn valid governance discussions into personal attacks or conspiracy threads. That’s not how decentralization grows.
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can you specify which community are you specifically talking about?
agreed by a motion proposal on NNS?
can you elaborate how exactly does this decentralize the network with delegating proof of stake votes?
Yeah, it’s a no from me, I’m backing @borovan all the way.
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