From: Caffeine, to: SNS Idea

Developers
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After getting into Caffeine I came up with this loop and thought it would be interesting to explore as an SNS. Does this hold any interest to anybody? Any feed back would be appreciated.

The Full-Circle Loop of the Drone SNS

This diagram shows how three distinct but interconnected applications work together to create a decentralized and self-sustaining economy. The flow of value and activity moves in a continuous loop, with each component fueling the next.

    ┌───────────────────────────┐
    │       1. Open Drone       │
    │     (Investment & DAO)    │
    └───────────▲───────┬───────┘
                │       │
      Community │       │ Revenue
      Trust &   │       │ Generated
      Engagement│       │ by Services
                │       │
    ┌───────────┴───────▼───────┐
    │       3. Roundabout       │<──────────┐
    │        (Social Hub)       │           │
    └───────────┬───────▲───────┘           │
                │       │                   │
      Demand    │       │ Positive          │ Service
      for       │       │ Feedback          │ Demand
      Services  │       │ from Users        │
                ▼       │                   │
    ┌───────────────────┴───────────────────┘
    │        2. Dropster (Logistics)        │
    │ (Orchestration & Delivery Service)    │
    └───────────────────────────────────────┘

1. Open Drone: The Foundation

This is the decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) where everything begins. It’s the investment and infrastructure layer.

  • You Provide: Capital and governance. Users invest in the drone fleet by purchasing tokens or NFTs that represent fractional ownership. They also vote on key decisions, such as fleet expansion and profit distribution.

  • The System Provides: Trust and shared ownership. The smart contracts transparently manage funds and asset ownership, making it a community-owned fleet.

2. Dropster: The Engine

This is the utility and service layer that puts the drones to work.

  • You Provide: Demand for a service. Users request and pay for drone deliveries to move items from one location to another.

  • The System Provides: Value and revenue. The smart contracts automatically dispatch the drones, manage payments, and ensure deliveries are completed efficiently. A portion of the service fees are sent back to the Open Drone DAO.

3. Roundabout: The Connector

This is the social and community layer that drives local activity and new demand.

  • You Provide: Community and content. Users share and exchange locally, creating a social hub for their neighborhood.

  • The System Provides: A seamless user experience. The app allows users to easily initiate a Dropster delivery for anything they find on the platform, directly connecting social activity to a real-world service. The positive feedback and trust built here drive more people to use Dropster.

The Full-Circle Flow

The flow is continuous:

  • Open Drone receives revenue from Dropster, increasing the value of its shares and incentivizing more investment.

  • Roundabout creates demand for deliveries, which generates revenue for Dropster.

  • Dropster provides the delivery service, which is a key utility of the Open Drone fleet and a central feature of the Roundabout social network.

This loop ensures that as the social community grows, the demand for the service grows, which in turn increases the value of the shared assets. It’s a powerful, self-reinforcing cycle.

Thanks!

Paul

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Interesting but what kind of payload can these drones carry?

Can I have it drop water balloons directly onto people I don’t like?

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My sense is that drone delivery is almost inevitable in the near future. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was a DAO instead of the alternative?

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Actually a very good idea. I was just joking obviously. The only issue I have is security. In this day and age, you might have to limit where you fly these because thieves or even people’s dogs might seize the opportunity to snatch the drone or shoot it down or who knows what which would start causing major losses. Then to counteract, do you drop the payload from a height instead of gently putting it down?

Also, what about congestion in the air from competitors that might cause collisions and possible noise complaints or people being annoyed with all the drones flying around? Things to think about I guess?

But yeah this is not a bad idea for a DAO funded and managed system on ICP. Better run by the community than big tech like Amazon. That’s for sure.

1 Like
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Thanks for taking a deeper look @jokerswild. Yes absolutely there are a ton of things to consider and work out. I will start with community and go from there.

Here is a litepaper that gives a sense of how it could go forward.

Open Drone: A Community-Owned Logistics Network

An Introduction

Today, the logistics industry is dominated by centralized corporations. They control data, set prices, and own the infrastructure. This model is inefficient and lacks transparency. We envision a new paradigm: a decentralized, community-owned logistics network powered by autonomous drones. This is the vision of Open Drone.

This litepaper serves as an introduction to our project, outlining the core problems we aim to solve, our proposed solution, and the foundational economic and technological principles that will guide us. Our greatest asset is not capital, but our community. This document is a starting point, a blueprint for discussion, and an invitation for you to help us build a more open, efficient, and equitable future for logistics.

The Problem: A Centralized and Inefficient Supply Chain

Traditional logistics suffer from several key issues:

  • Lack of Accessibility: Building and operating a last-mile delivery network requires immense capital, locking out individuals and communities.

  • Centralized Control: A single company owns the delivery fleet and data, creating a siloed system with little transparency for consumers or partners.

  • High Costs: The overhead of centralized infrastructure is passed directly to the consumer, leading to expensive and inaccessible delivery services.

The Solution: The Full-Circle Loop

Open Drone is a full-circle, tokenized logistics network built on the Internet Computer Protocol (ICP). Our solution is comprised of three core components that work together to create a self-sustaining ecosystem:

  1. Open Drone ($OD): A community-governed, decentralized token. It is the lifeblood of the network, acting as both a currency for services and a governance tool.

  2. Dropster: An autonomous logistics protocol. This is the “brain” of our network—a decentralized application that handles dispatch, routing, and payment processing for drone deliveries.

  3. Roundabout: A community social network. Think of it as the public square where the entire ecosystem comes together. Users can offer their rooftops as landing pads, track deliveries, and vote on governance proposals. The Dropster protocol is seamlessly integrated into Roundabout.

The power of Open Drone lies in the synergistic “full-circle loop.” This loop turns what would normally be a cost into an opportunity for community members to earn and build.

The Full-Circle Loop in Action:

  • Community Contribution: An individual installs a certified landing pad on their property and registers it on Roundabout. They are rewarded in $OD for making their space available to the network.

  • Service & Payment: A user needs a package delivered. They initiate a request on Roundabout via the Dropster protocol, paying for the service using the $OD they earned or acquired.

  • Delivery & Rewards: Dropster autonomously dispatches a drone to the nearest available landing pad. The drone completes the delivery, and the drone operator and the landing pad owner receive a portion of the $OD payment.

  • Network Value: The $OD used to pay for the delivery is partially burned or re-distributed back into the network, creating a continuous economic model that incentivizes participation and ensures the token’s value.

Tokenomics: Open Drone ($OD)

The $OD token is a core component of our ecosystem, designed with a clear purpose and a fair distribution model.

  • Utility: $OD is used for all transactions within the network, including paying for deliveries, staking to earn rewards, and participating in network governance.

  • Governance: Token holders can vote on key decisions, such as protocol upgrades, new features, and the distribution of future community grants.

  • Distribution: $OD is not pre-mined or sold in a traditional ICO. It is earned. A significant portion of the token supply will be distributed to active community members who contribute to the network’s growth by providing landing pads, operating drones, and engaging in governance. A smaller portion will be allocated to a treasury to fund ongoing development and bounties.

Technical & Strategic Roadmap

Our approach is a lean, community-driven journey.

  • Phase 1 (Concept & Community):

    • Establish and grow the core community via OpenChat, Discord and other channels.

    • Finalize this litepaper based on community feedback.

    • Create a simple, community-facing website.

  • Phase 2 (Technical Prototype):

    • Deploy the Open Drone token smart contract (canister) on the ICP testnet.

    • Develop a basic Roundabout frontend that allows users to view their $OD balance.

    • Iterate on the tokenomics model based on real-world testnet data.

  • Phase 3 (Testnet Alpha Launch):

    • Launch the first version of the Dropster protocol on the testnet, allowing simulated deliveries and transactions.

    • Announce the DFINITY Developer Grant application to secure funding for future development.

  • Phase 4 (Scaling & Governance):

    • Formalize the Open Drone DAO, handing over key governance decisions to the community.

    • Begin exploring strategic partnerships with drone manufacturers and logistics partners.

Why the Internet Computer?

The Internet Computer Protocol (ICP) is a natural home for Open Drone. Its unique on-chain architecture allows us to host the entire application—from the social network frontend to the logistics protocol backend—on a decentralized network. This eliminates the need for expensive, centralized cloud services, ensuring our project remains true to its decentralized mission while also making it feasible to build with limited resources.

Join Us

The future of logistics is not owned by a single company; it’s owned by the people who power it. We invite you to join our community, read our discussions, and contribute to building the world’s first truly decentralized drone logistics network. Together, we can build something great.

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Interesting. Bravo on the Nice write up but that’s all it is (an idea and a concept right now). “DROPSTER” being the “Napster” for drones…. I think before you seek any funding whatsoever, you would need to show all of this actually working which means you would find a way to bootstrap the initial funding to do so and not ask the community to simply trust that you can execute on this complex grand vision no matter how good the write up is.

As you may or may not know, the community will usually no longer prefund development of such an early stage pure concept and the neuron fund is out of commission at the present time. ICVC will probably not fund you either in such an early stage nor will DFINITY grant you at such an early stage most likely but maybe I’m wrong if you already have a track record for developing such things.

Show an actual video of this actually doing different types of useful deliveries within useful distances from start to finish as well as how you will deal with drone battery recharges and maintenance, home-base procurement and costs whether fixed or community provided including needed employees and financials regarding drone costs and payload sizes. There’s a lot of moving parts obviously. Bootstrap the initial development and have a working prototype prior to having a token and SNS and all this…

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Yes absolutely you are right and really all I have is the idea that I don’t even know is original or doable. I guess I’m planting seeds and maybe a bit frustrated by the lack of big ideas thus far. Appreciate your input.

I made a sort of wonky prototype of the Roundabout app done in Caffeine. That spur’ed this exploration.

https://roundabout-tem.caffeine.xyz/

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Drone delivery itself is not a new idea. Amazon, Walmart, and DoorDash are either testing or doing them in limited areas so you would have to study what has already been achieved carefully and know exactly what the costs involved are:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drone+delivery

When Amazon first attempted it, they spent over 2 Billion dollars and only managed 100 deliveries in experimental markets as of May 2023.

Now we’re much further along in 2025:

What’s novel would be having Open Source Software for a 3rd party drone delivery system that is community owned and operated via web3 and a DAO however you would have to pinpoint who the customers would be and for what use cases people would actually pay for this esp. considering the competition will already be delivering groceries, packages, and food for most online orders.

So what you have is novel software running on web3 ICP similar to Uber except you’d also have to ensure it is tested on mobile. Then you’d find out how much it would cost you to interface with one of these companies already offering this type of service since reinventing the wheel would cost too much and by the time you figure all the costs out you’d probably realize that unless it was done inhouse, it would cost too much and nobody would be willing to pay for it. Probably, idk.

Anyways, it IS a good idea and you should dream big but once marketshare is already dominated by the big boys, it is extremely hard to compete. Web3 doesn’t save you from the reality of real world obstacles and business expenses. You still have to deal with all of it.

Anyways, very interesting to think about…

The main issue is: what will people use the service for and why would they use it here?

Very cool that Caffeine Alpha built what it did. Neat but tons of research is needed to drill down your niche proposition like for example, I’m only doing this type of delivery because it is cost effective and people would actually pay for it because no one else is doing this particular type of delivery service that is actually needed…

You don’t have a business use case yet. This is not shark tankable yet and Mark Cuban would drill you just like I did here for sure.

Anyways, if you decide to go down the path, it is a good beginning. And even if you scrap this idea for another, it is a good exercise.

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This is what I was hopping for. Thank you for the well considered and wise thoughts. I agree it seems almost hopeless when you look at it hard. I think the key would have to be efficiency, especially in the beginning when no one is using it. Anyway lot’s to think about or not. See how I feel in the morning. Maybe I can dream of something less complex lol.

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Yeah no problem. It is a good brainstorm and your write-up was nice.

From a risk assessment view as well, you have the problem that you also would need to deal with insurance because what if the drone runs out of juice mid-flight and plunges onto a person or a kid’s head and kills them? Or what if it falls through someone’s rooftop or car and causes major damage?

That’s why you would only want to deal with the software part and leave the rest to the drone logistics company but then that comes at a steep cost to pay for their cost to obtain the drones, maintain the drones, have liability insurance, and still make a profit.

By the time you pay them, your customer can’t afford it for simple deliveries that only big tech with deep pockets and economies of scale can afford.

I could go on and on and on but there’s no point other than this thinking exercise about what this business plan would ultimately entail and whether it is worth doing or not.

Yup. Have a good day… :slight_smile:

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Interesting concept, but I think you might run into some serious scalability and regulatory issues with the centralized drone fleet approach. Having one entity own all the drones creates a big target for regulators, and different jurisdictions have wildly different rules about commercial drone operations.

What if you flipped this into a peer-to-peer marketplace instead? Rather than the DAO buying drones, create an open-source platform where individual drone owners can connect to customers who need deliveries. Think of it more like a matching protocol than a fleet management system.

Here’s what I’m picturing:

  • Drone operators bring their own hardware and handle their local regulations
  • Customers post delivery requests with pricing
  • Smart contracts match requests to available operators
  • Operators stake tokens (maybe worth 2-3x typical delivery value) to prevent bad actors
  • If they damage cargo or don’t deliver, customers get compensated from the stake

This approach has some real advantages:

  • No massive capital requirements or centralized liability
  • Much lower regulatory risk since operators handle their own compliance
  • Natural geographic distribution
  • Lower barrier to entry for both sides

The staking mechanism protects customers while keeping honest operators profitable. You could still have the social layer (Roundabout) driving demand, but the actual service layer becomes truly decentralized.

What do you think? Does a peer-to-peer approach like this interest you, or are you specifically drawn to the community ownership model?

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That sounds like a really good idea to me.

Decentralise the centralised Dropster part can become not a fleet owner but a fleet manager through P2P marketplace where any licensed drone operator can participate.

AI seems to think it’s a good idea:
The New Model: Peer-to-Peer Marketplace

The new proposal shifts the liability and capital requirements to individual operators.

Pros:

  • Zero Capital Requirement: You don’t have to buy drones. Your project’s core mission is now to build the software—the protocol and the marketplace. This is a massive advantage for a sole founder with limited resources.

  • Lower Regulatory Risk: The legal burden of compliance falls on the individual drone operator, who is already licensed for their local jurisdiction. Your platform simply facilitates the connection, much like Uber or Airbnb.

  • Scalability & Geographic Distribution: The network can expand organically as individual operators join in different locations. There is no need for a massive, top-down expansion strategy.

  • Trust through Staking: The proposed staking mechanism is a classic Web3 solution to a real-world problem. It creates a trustless system where both the customer and the operator are protected. If an operator is a “bad actor,” they lose their stake, which can be used to compensate the customer. This is a very compelling feature.

Cons:

  • Quality Control: With a peer-to-peer network, you have less control over the quality of the service. Some operators might use old drones or have less experience. A strong reputation system (like a Roundabout user rating system) would be critical to mitigate this.

  • Reliability: An operator might cancel a job last minute, and the network would have to find a replacement quickly to maintain a good user experience.

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My question though is why does ANYONE truly need a drone delivery vs. just getting it delivered by car by like lets say an Uber driver? Unless it is urgent medical equipment or blood or organs I mean do you really need your lunch or whatever 10 minutes sooner? Maybe in certain areas where it takes forever to get through traffic or mountain regions it would make sense but otherwise?

Is it to eliminate the tip and get it faster but possibly at the risk of having it damaged (dropped) or put down in a poor location like in the middle of the front or back lawn where it could be stolen or worse, misguided to the wrong location (oops GPS error)…

For Amazon, Walmart, and Doordash, I’m assuming it is to eliminate the cost of labor by a real delivery person and for making these deliveries as quickly as possible from a central hub…Maybe from your local restaurant so the food is always delivered piping hot in record time? Or for frozen or refrigerated goods that need to be delivered quickly and not have multiple stops along the way like Doordash does?

But on a smaller scale, if it costs people the same even with having to tip a delivery person, what would people choose ? Would they really care to get a drone delivery or how it is delivered as long as it is delivered?

I’m just trying to justify the entire reasoning here. As techies and nerds it it certainly cool but you can only deliver within a certain radius due to needing the batteries to last there and back.

Also, I see they are using special packaging usually but I guess these drone operators could just use a generic box that you open, take your stuff, and then close it?

Anyways, that is good advice. It should just be an open software project that the community utilizes to do the logistics for individual operators who take on all the risk individually separate from the DAO.

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Well for some time I have dreamt about an app where people can share their belongings. Example, so I need something that I don’t have. Instead of going out and buying a new whatever I can safely rent or swap with a neighbour.

I guess ID could be handled by DecideAi?

There is no UNIQUE ID for the RWA but maybe Origyn could help?

Also using Zero Knowledge proofs to hide location data might be a bit of an ask at this point. So that dampens the dream a bit.

Anyway just a thought experiment. Seems like we are getting closer.

AI breakdown of Roundabout app:

Let’s break down the Roundabout app, its mechanics, and the key challenges you’ll face.

The Core Concept: The NFT as a Digital Twin

At its heart, Roundabout is a marketplace for “tokenized physical assets.” The NFT isn’t just a picture; it’s a digital representation of a real-world object.

How it works:

  1. Item Tokenization: A user takes a picture of their item (e.g., a power drill, a kayak, a set of tools) and uploads it to the Roundabout app. They then mint a unique NFT for this item. The NFT’s metadata would contain the item’s description, condition, and a unique identifier. This NFT now serves as the digital deed of ownership.

  2. Listing and Discovery: The user lists their NFT on the Roundabout marketplace. The app uses privacy-preserving location data to show the item to other users in their vicinity.

  3. The Transaction Smart Contract: This is where the magic happens. When a user wants to rent, share, or swap the item, they interact with a smart contract on the ICP. This contract would serve as a decentralized escrow agent.

  4. Integration with Dropster: Once a transaction is agreed upon, the Dropster protocol is seamlessly triggered to handle the pickup and delivery of the physical item. This closes the loop between the virtual (NFT transaction) and the physical (item delivery).

Key Mechanisms to Ensure Safety and Security

Your goal is to make this “safe and secure.” The P2P Dropster model is the perfect foundation for this. Here’s how you can leverage it:

  • Staking for Trust: This is the most critical component. When a user lists an item for rent or swap, they would have to stake a certain amount of $OD tokens. The person renting or swapping the item would also have to stake a proportional amount. This creates a powerful financial incentive for both parties to act honestly.

  • Decentralized Escrow: The transaction smart contract acts as a trustless escrow service.

    • For renting: The rental fee and the security deposit are held in the contract. Once the rental period ends and the item is returned (confirmed by both parties), the fee is paid out and the security deposit is returned.

    • For swapping: Both users’ NFTs and their staked tokens are held in escrow. Once the Dropster protocol confirms both items have been successfully delivered to their new owners, the contract automatically releases the NFTs and returns the staked tokens.

  • Community-Based Dispute Resolution: What happens if there’s a disagreement? You can implement a decentralized arbitration mechanism. If a dispute arises (e.g., a rented item is returned damaged), both parties can submit evidence to the smart contract. A randomly selected jury of $OD token holders would review the evidence and vote on a resolution. The smart contract would then execute the jury’s decision, releasing the staked funds to the appropriate party.

Major Challenges to Address

  • Identity and Verification: How do you prevent fraud? You’ll need a way to verify that the person listing the item is its true owner. This is a classic “oracle problem” for real-world assets. You could start with a simple, photo-based verification system and evolve towards a more robust, decentralized identity solution.

  • Location and Privacy: The Roundabout app’s core feature is “nearby” sharing. But how do you handle location data without compromising user privacy? You’ll need to use privacy-preserving technologies like zero-knowledge proofs (ZK-proofs) to verify a user’s proximity without revealing their exact location.

  • Legal & Liability: While the smart contract handles the digital side, the physical exchange is still subject to real-world laws. You’ll need to address questions of liability if an item is damaged or if a transaction goes wrong. Having a well-defined legal framework, even if it’s off-chain, is essential.

In essence, the Roundabout app is the Human-to-Human layer of your ecosystem, where the social and economic interactions truly happen. By combining the digital ownership of an NFT, the trustless transactions of a smart contract, and the logistics of P2P Dropster, you are creating a platform that is both technologically advanced and deeply connected to the needs of local communities.