I don’t understand why I’m on this list… I participate of almost everything but the forums.
Here I am with Dom… https://x.com/icp_Argentina/status/1848303213449298242
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Good day, my name is Ivanov Oleksandr. I am a validator, miner, and crypto enthusiast. I feel very upset to hear misunderstandings directed at me, as well as being called a fake person, and so on. I was thinking about what kind of proof I could provide to show that I am a real person and someone who is connected to the crypto industry and servers.
I will provide you with a video from my phone. Here is my Trustee bank account — you can use Google to see what it is. It’s a crypto bank card. In this video, you can see my first and last name, as well as the fact that I am paying a significant bill to Hetzner. You can also look up what that is on Google, but those who are familiar with servers know that it is a data center operator.
I believe that this evidence is sufficient to prove that I am a real person, and I kindly ask you to clear me of all suspicions.
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Is Hetzner running ICP nodes?
Cross-posting this message also here.
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Indeed, perhaps introduce internet identity linked to proof of personhood into this forum. https://decideai.xyz/
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Please note that we opened Gen-2 around this time frame. Many people who were waiting to become Node Providers therefore all joined at roughly the same time. We also enocuraged them to use the same boilerplate templates to make sure they provided the right information.
- We announced that Gen-2 was open.
- NPs started placing hardware orders (which always had many weeks of backorders in 2023)
- When the hardware finally came in, they were all able to start onboarding.
Thus, it was very natural that we had a bunch of NPs onboarding at the same time and used the same formats. Participating in forums prior to making their first proposal was never a requirement. Thus, when we made “making a forum post” a requirement for their first proposal to become an NP, many NPs had to go create a forum account. So many of the facts highlighted here were the result of DFINITY’s decisions and guidance and the hardware market.
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I get it, but there are SO many Node Providers unrelated to tech, crypto, from completely unrelated fields, that it doesn’t pass the sniff test imo.
Unless you’re actively evangelising the IC to tax associates in Cyprus, and South African artists and real estate companies, then you have randomly attracted quite a mixed bag of people.
The future of the Internet depends on people like this. People like you and me. People that order perforated bed sheets.
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Hello, I replied in this thread:
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I get it, but there are SO many Node Providers unrelated to tech, crypto, from completely unrelated fields, that it doesn’t pass the sniff test imo.
Yes, many Gen-1 Node Providers were not involved in Crypto at all. They are business people who loved the concept of an alternative to Big Data from a business standpoint. This is a good thing, not a bad thing, to have the business world supporting the IC. We need support from outside of the crypto world! We were, of course, thrilled to have Gen-2 people who WERE already involved in crypto, but we did not turn away people who heard about node providing from friends, business associates, Gen-1 NPs, etc. DFINITY has never said that only people already involved in crypto can be node providers. Anyone who wants to be a node provider and support the IC has always been welcome.
Your example seems strange from your point of view, and I get it. I do not know this NP so I cannot comment about them. But I can say that I know many business people with wildly diversified businesses and interests. Ironically, I know someone who owns a business importing and selling Egyptian bedsheets, and also owns a tech business, and also owns a storage facility in their area. The couple has varied backgrounds and isn’t afraid to jump on any opportunity that they see and understand. Thus, while I understand your skepticism, I am not so quick to label them as a fraud because of it.
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I think discussing specific node providers is pointless. The core issue is that it’s very easy for node providers to collude and control the majority of nodes within a subnet.
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This wasn’t in the template was it?
Neptune, and Carbon Twelve… that’s another 33 nodes (8 on critical subnets).
I personally had in the past told them that a good way to make sure they included all the right info was to copy a proposal and forum post that was successful, modify it to fit their business, etc., and submit it. Sven may have done the same thing. I never dreamed that someone would consider this proof of colluding. I certainly do not! I consider that anyone who thinks they’re smart enough to overcome the technical blockers would, if they were truly trying hide links, have been smart enough to make them all look more unique. But honest people don’t think of these things.
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Dom told me that Node Providers won’t engage in misconduct because law enforcement agencies exist.
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I think the problem, where the original math fails, is that the diversity of node providers doesn’t increase at the same rate as the number of subnets.
So, a possible way to attack the IC would be to suddenly increase the need for more subnets, and then your nodes would be welcomed with open arms.
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This forum thread has turned from shit show into something highly credible and productive. I’m really impressed to see this turn of events. Thank you for starting it @borovan and thank you to all node providers and Dfinity folks who have been contributing to the discussion. I’m learning a lot.
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Indeed, and additonally the size of each subnet does not change in terms of nodes. Despite what some have claimed, anyone is allowed to raise a Subnet Membership proposals. Nodes go offline or degraded all the time within subnets and need replacing. A bad actor in the future could respond proactively to these incidents and progressively move more and more of their nodes (belonging to apparently separate NPs) into a specific subnet they’d like to attack.
Yeah, I think the community should try to use the focus that this situation has garnered to come up with a better system (and/or better checks and balances).
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The hardest thing to believe is that node ownership behaves like a power law. We are actually using about 50 node providers, so for the cases above to work, we need someone behind 5, 10, or 15 providers. It feels impossible until you actually look at the providers and their websites and take into account that it would be relatively cheap to acquire nodes compared to the size of our competition, which is worth billions of dollars, and the incentives at play.