In case you are new here, let me inform you that the Dfinity way is always to overpromise and underdeliver. Here is Dominic Williams from 2017: “The first objective pursued by DFINITY is not particularly abstract and involves the mass hosting of enterprise IT systems.” Over seven years on, how many enterprise IT systems has Dfinity onboarded? I fell for that, I fell for the Socialfi idea, I fell for the massive potential of on-chain NFTs, I fell for BTC / ETH integration being a gateway to mass fully on-chain defi, but I’m not falling for this new AI pipedream. Each of the previous ideas was exciting, but Dfinity refused to do what was necessary to make them workable at the get-go (NFT standard, stablecoin integration etc). It is clear the foundation has not understood consumers and will never do so. I asked a simple question upthread that nobody has answered: Dominic Williams says in the talk that individuals might want to create personal websites to share thoughts and photographs, an entrepreneur might want to create an e-commerce website and a corporation might want to create a corporate portal. But what benefits do any of these gain from working with caffeine.ai rather than a conventional AI programme that creates Web2 websites that are cheaper to build and maintain?
The sluggish market environment is frustrating, but I believe the future will be better, good luck.
So tell me which AI now can create Web2 with backend + database and deploy it for you so you don’t need any tech knowledge? It can’t. Why? Because it’s too complicated. And that’s what ICP offers, it’s simple enough for AI to create Web3 with database and at the same time deploy it, it’s a sandbox that has everything you need and it’s perfect for AI, all you gonna have to do is explain what you want and sign some transactions for cycles.
The reason why big companies not moving to ICP is because their code will be visible and anyone could copy paste their entire project in an hour, but with AI that changes completely because then code is not that valuable when it’s created by AI in that same hour. So no one cares if you gonna steal it when you can just prompt AI and it will create it.
This combination of decentralized code and AI is perfect and it’s only way to go.
Your conventional AI you referring wont be able to be responsible for entire lifecycle of the project while ICP + AI can be easily done.
I made a decent website with this one https://v0.dev/. It should have support for database, but I haven’t tried it.
“That’s what ICP offers”. No, it doesn’t. It is what Dfinity promises to offer. You can choose to believe the promise. I don’t because far too many promises have been broken already.
Can you explain why the code would be visible to anyone? I actually think the opposite is true—you have more privacy with your code on the Internet Computer.
While a malicious node operator could theoretically try to access it, that’s no different from hosting code on a traditional cloud provider, where your data is also at risk. In fact, traditional clouds might be more prone to hacking or unauthorized access.
As far as I know, the DFINITY team even has plans on the roadmap to encrypt canister code, so that not even node operators could access it in the future.
Re: code accessible to hosters
Playing devil’s advocate here but a majority of the fortune 500 companies will use their own hardware for anything that is critical. That’s not to say they don’t use cloud though. ICP is quite expensive to interface with your own outside servers and Dfinity only teased the idea of bad lands, which would allow the IC to do much more with a cost effective “bridge” - especially when it comes to AI
Well there were many promises such as Badlands, People Parties, VetKeys etc etc
Any chance of beta testing caffeine.ai? Can someone share an invite code?
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To be fair though show me a developer that doesn’t have a track record of overpromising and under delivering lmfao in fact show me the company that does deliver as promised and that’s not Apple with a whole new product every week lol although, I agree ICP and DFINITY are notorious…
That being said a Replit version for the IC would be clutch to pair with the Ninja 
IDE.
I’d like to stop developing all together and let the vibes develop themselves.
POV me everyday all day. https://youtu.be/JeNS1ZNHQs8?feature=shared
All of my frustrations have evaporated after seeing Dominic’s Caffeine Ai demo today. Looked better than I expected. We also have a release date for beta. Can’t wait!
Better quality video
And here is a nice summary from Gemini, with timestamps and a link to the full demo.
You’re right that now I can deploy a website using Google Firebase and put it on some free web host. The problem is I can’t control that web hosting company. it could go down and then whatever I built for the long term (users, data, etc.) can just be gone when they go bankrupt. Same with Firebase. They add their service for authentication and database storage. Say one day Google gets hacked, or deletes/bans my account. I guess then I’m screwed, hope I made backups and find some other platform. Those users on the site? Sorry can’t serve you anymore.
ICP puts all of this into a single function, to top up canisters. So I deploy with Caffeine all of my functions, and update as needed while knowing that it’ll preserve and migrate my data per update. I don’t care if Google shuts down, or that other web host. I just top up the canister or hook that up to a smart contract, and then I can go live my life. I don’t need to refresh API keys. I don’t need to trust Google to not get hacked. This platform is far more tamperproof. So, it’s a net gain in the long run.
But sure, if I don’t want to spend money, it’s better in the short run to use some Web 2 platform and trust it with my and my customers’ data.
@Borlay So tell me which AI now can create Web2 with backend + database and deploy it for you so you don’t need any tech knowledge? It can’t. Why? Because it’s too complicated.
No longer the case. I can build websites quickly with natural language using Google Firebase.
Also, vetKeys has a high potential for protecting valuable code data. This could lead to something like an on-chain GitHub with both public and private capabilities.
When Brave Search was launched, with its own web index, they made it clear that initially it was a work in progress, and they couldn’t do image and video searches IIRC. Instead they used Bing for those. Also, they couldn’t do all regular searches with their own web index, so they would publish a score indicating how much was organic and how much was via Google or whatever.
Then, over time, they reduced their external dependencies, so this is a viable way to go, as long as you’re transparent.
When Brave Search was launched, with its own web index, they made it clear that initially it was a work in progress, and they couldn’t do image and video searches IIRC. Instead they used Bing for those.
@kevinmcfarlane I don’t use Brave Search because I don’t use the Brave browser. Perhaps I would if I used Linux. We’ve gotta remember that the mainstream will likely be walled off from this tech because they’ll just copy it into their closed-sourced garden that works well enough for day-to-day.
I fell for BTC / ETH integration being a gateway to mass fully on-chain defi
@Moschus I actually can’t wait for @KongSwap to add native BTC/ETH. It’s already proven that Oisy can hold raw, actual BTC and ETH. Only a matter of time til it gets traded in smart contracts with other blockchains.
I think we should just let DFINITY develop. If they need help, we help. They’re a good company and well placed for success. In the meantime, the current ICP capabilities allow for a lot of good stuff to be built independent of DFINITY. All of these platforms can compete with Web2 or just solve your own personal needs and be shared with others. When Caffeine is released, we’ll be able to deploy full-stack communities on-chain, independent from big-tech. And I hope the NNS allows for more node providers so we can join and support the network.
I’ve set Brave Search as default in Vivaldi, which is my desktop default.
Is that a teaser release date that DOM put up? i.e. the “29 day counter that came up”?? meaning July 2nd for Beta release PRIOR to the July 15th event in San Fran?
Can someone please confirm when the Beta release is actually happening or is this still tentative?
Will Caffeine AI be out of Alpha in time for the July 15th event and is it even going to be released in July at all or is the Beta going to be delayed until August / September late Q3 ???
At this point I don’t mind. We know that the product exists, so it will be released - eventually. It was different when we had no visibility at all.
That’s essentially like CoinNation’s ICP Studio, which has everything on ICP except for outsourcing the generation via Claude.
I’d consider that acceptable for now, but not for much longer as LLMs are getting quite advanced on the IC, from both increased protocol capabilities and increased efficiency of Web2 LLMs such as Deepseek and other Chinese-made models.
Is this a bot?
Look, you can check out their videos yourself. It looks like both Caffeine and ICP Studio simply make a call out to these LLM models to build based on a formulated prompt. I’m all for it. And that approach essentially allows the model to do all the thinking, so if these models become more advanced, as long as they’re a call away, the setups are modular and are perfectly sufficient.