Just gonna leave my thread of concerns & how it was addressed here.
Seems extremely premature if we can’t even articulate how an evaluation was achieved.
Furthermore, is the dApp to date, not built by a completely different team? Should we not have proof of technical competence, through, for example, an update to the dApp, before setting a precedent of bringing half-cooked dApps to the SNS?
As delineated in our previous communication, our valuation methodology for Sonic adhered to established venture capital practices. We are pleased to report that Sonic has achieved noteworthy milestones, as evidenced by the execution of over $10M transactions and the accumulation of over $350,000 in TVL. These metrics underscore Sonic’s successful market penetration and the platform’s capacity to foster active user engagement.
Sonic’s strategic roadmap and overarching vision elucidate the platform’s considerable growth potential. Our analysis encompasses a comprehensive assessment of market opportunities, including an estimation of the total addressable market and the potential for capturing a significant market share.
The Sonic team has demonstrated exceptional proficiency in enhancing the platform’s value proposition within a condensed timeframe. Notable accomplishments include the integration of an extensive array of token support, the adoption of emergent industry standards, and the forthcoming open-sourcing of the platform. The team’s contributions extend beyond Sonic, as evidenced by the successful launch of dApps like Rocket, NFT marketplaces (Meme Cake), and wallet adapters (Artemis) within the ICP ecosystem.
Sonic’s affiliation with the Dfinity ecosystem commenced immediately following Dfinity’s mainnet launch, and our commitment to development within this ecosystem remains unwavering. We are honored to have received multiple grants from Dfinity, which have facilitated our ongoing efforts to contribute value to the ecosystem.
In our previous conversation, I had been told;
“Use the VC method. Account for the high risk and potentially high rewards associated with early-stage investments.”
I’ve simply been asking you to show how the evaluation was achieved, using ANY method.
I’d agree those are substantial achievements in both volume, and TVL for our chain, and are the start of metrics needed for an accurate valuation. I’d also agree that you’ve outlined a comprehensive, and ambitious plan. While these are the foundations for a good evaluation, the extrapolation upon the current value, reflects something inaccurate in the shortterm, in my opinion, to investors (growth, population, volume).
Obviously the two are incomparable as one is one it’s earliest growth stages, while the other is an established DEX, but if we just look at the numbers and stick to your volume evaluation theory ,
Uniswap currently holds a bit over 1% of ETH’s M Cap, as the largest DEX. Uniswap seen 600m Volume within the last 24hrs, and has a M cap of 3B, which is just 5x.
Sonic has seen 4.5k Volume within the last 24hrs, and has a proclaimed M cap of 15M, which is 3333x.
You’re trying to put Sonic in the exact same position, % wise, as a startup.
I don’t think your valuation is crazily inaccurate, as it is a startup, and it does have to be priced according to future potential (to a point), as you need funding to build and grow. However it also has to be priced realistically in accordance to its current performance.
Which is why I’m just asking you to show your work as to how this valuation was achieved, rather than just saying “I used the VC method and imagined the numbers”
I congratulate the team on making the switch from WICP to ICP, that is a great implementation to remove friction from new traders. With that being said your first hint of acquisition was on February 9th (sonic v2 tweet). It is now May 4th. I don’t think it’s exactly fair to call that a condensed timeframe, as Psychadelic built Sonic within that same timeframe to begin with (announced 11/2021, released 01/2022). Within 4 months, I don’t really consider “adopting industry standards” and “open-sourcing the platform” count as substantial updates in comparison to what your roadmap outlines.
Just trying to ask questions & understand how this is going to be profitable for me as an investor.
I thought one needed to open-source before SNS so we can review the code?
It makes it trustless. I know that Kinic is open-source FE and uses CanDB backend.
They have yet to open-source their search canisters but wrote that they will with the SNS config file.
How do we trust that you will open-source it? How do we know it will work with the SNS if it is not open-source 100% before hand.
The risk of open-source: is only copy-cats and thunder-grabbers?
Yea it should be mandatory to open source code before decentralization sale.
Thank you for the feedback. We have already made a public announcement that Sonic will be open-sourced before the SNS - https://twitter.com/sonic_ooo/status/1654115502917054467?t=mmh770bDdd7Q3PXguQcNTw&s=19
Thank you for the feedback.
We have already made a public announcement that Sonic will be open-sourced before the SNS - https://twitter.com/sonic_ooo/status/1654115502917054467?t=mmh770bDdd7Q3PXguQcNTw&s=19
We appreciate your inquiry regarding Sonic’s valuation. Allow me to assure you that our valuation is both justifiable and consistent with prevailing industry standards. Sonic’s development team possesses extensive experience and expertise, and we are confident in our ability to execute on our strategic objectives.
Sonic’s valuation is derived from a multifaceted analysis that considers our current achievements, growth prospects, and strategic roadmap. Key factors informing our valuation include:
Moreover - Our progress has been facilitated by the support of over 35 esteemed ICP investors who participated in our previous funding round at the current valuation, thereby enabling us to continue enhancing the platform.
We acknowledge and empathize with your sentiments regarding valuation. As an experienced investor, I have occasionally encountered investment opportunities where the valuation exceeded my comfort threshold. In such instances, I have elected to exercise patience and await a valuation that aligns with my investment criteria before initiating a position. Alternatively, I have employed a dollar-cost averaging strategy to mitigate valuation risk. I would respectfully suggest that you consider adopting a similar approach in evaluating your potential investment in Sonic’s SNS.
Lastly, we would like to emphasize the importance of prudent risk management. We encourage all prospective investors to allocate capital judiciously and invest only what they can afford to lose.
Thank you for your interest in Sonic
A good product should not only look at its open source or not, but should pay more attention to its usage experience. I have experienced many projects that were completely open source before IDO, but the product experience sucked and died after IDO.
You mentioned Kinic, you can search for “Internet Computer” in Kinic, then search for the same word in Google and compare. Ask yourself, is the user experience of Kinic good? Even if it’s open source.
You can say that for any web3 app…
I can go to an ATM and get out money at any time. Does the NNS app have that feature? Oh. no? So it must not be good by your criteria.
Many of the IC apps have web2 versions. DSCVR = Reddit, Kinic = Google, Twitter = TAGGR.
If I look up TAGGR in Google no results that are relevant to TAGGR app… If I look it up in Querio (off-chain Kinic) also inaccurate results that do not find TAGGR. The only place that does let me discover the web3 version is Kinic.
It is about making open source things better and better.
Here is a thread from a leak Google email showing that open source AI destroyed their moat for the better of humanity. This is what web3 is about for me.
I am happy for the Sonic team for their upcoming SNS launch but I have a few concerns.
The product has degraded for me as a developer since your takeover from Psychedelic.
Breaking changes happens without notice, your sonic-js library is outdated, broken and I had to patch it locally in order to use it, your customer support takes ages to respond, the TVL has no meaningful increase and the app became noticeably slower in swaps.
I assumed after the takeover you would maintain the same quality of work or increase it but from my experience this wasn’t the case. Honestly most of the good things about Sonic is pre the takeover.
I wonder why you are rushing to the SNS sale that quickly before you prove you are capable of maintaining a good product.
Nevertheless good luck with the sale and I hope it makes the product better because sonic is the best user experience in the ecosystem so far.
What do you think is a fair valuation and why? I agree that we need independent investors valuing companies and informing about what if fair. I guess one way is to let the NNS market decide but users should be informed on how it compares to other similar products I suppose. A lot of the concerns you mentioned are valid.
I really appreciate the constructive discussion in this forum thread and I think that it is great that SNS key considerations (components on-chain vs off-chain, open source, voting power/decentralization) are brought up.
To the list of topics under discussion I would like to add the topic of security reviews. An earlier SNS forum post formulated this suggestion
- In general, it is considered to be best practice to conduct a security review including the fixing of risky findings. Guidance on security best practices is here .
- Hence, a project should explain to which extent security reviews are relevant for the dapp and what kind of security reviews have been conducted for the dapp if applicable.
@memecake Could you kindly elaborate on this? I assume that for a DEX the community might expect a high level of scrutiny ideally before the SNS launch.
Are you serious? Please don’t impose Web 3 on a product just for the sake of Web 3. The mass of users don’t care about that.
Maybe because they track you.
The first result I see have nothing to do with the IC.
It might also depend on language and country.
It’s great to hear that Sonic is gearing up for the SNS launch. As a newcomer to this community, I am excited to explore the various opportunities that lie ahead.
I noticed that Sonic is shifting towards a synthetic-based trading platform, and I have a question. Will the swap service still be available after the synthetic launch?
Thank you for sharing your feedback and concerns about the Sonic platform. We appreciate your candor and would like to provide a comprehensive response to address your concerns point by point.
Sonic JS library: Our current priority is to focus on developing products and offerings that add value to our platform and generate long-term revenue. While the Sonic JS library is not our immediate focus, it does not mean that we will not be offering APIs in the future. As we introduce synthetic assets and order books, we will release APIs that connect to these services for market makers and other interested businesses.
Performance concerns: When we acquired Sonic, it was built on a single canister architecture and supported only 3-4 tokens. Our team has since expanded support to more than 15 tokens, which initially caused some instability. However, we have made significant architectural changes to rectify these issues, and we are confident that Sonic now offers a competitive, seamless experience for swaps and liquidity provision.
SNS: The current market conditions, characterized by generally decreasing cryptocurrency prices, present an opportunity for us to raise funds to improve our platform and stay ahead of our competitors. In contrast, a bull market often leads to rushed investments and compromised quality in the industry. Our decision to pursue an SNS sale now is a strategic move to accelerate the development and growth of our platform. To achieve our vision of reaching $100M TVL and $250M in trades on Sonic, we need to start now. As outlined in our roadmap, we have set ambitious goals and we believe that raising funds is a necessary step towards achieving them. While some may view this as rushing, we see it as a strategic move to accelerate the development and growth of our platform.
We appreciate your support and understanding as we strive to enhance the Sonic platform and maintain its position as the best user experience in the ecosystem. We are committed to addressing concerns, learning from our users, and driving continuous improvement.
Thank you
Thank you for the feedback. I do agree with your point. “Let the market decide”.
Thank you for your support.
Thank you for the kind support @antony. We are pleased to inform you that we will continue supporting swap and liquidity provider (LP) pools on our platform. Our commitment to providing a seamless and efficient user experience remains a top priority as we work towards enhancing and expanding our services.
