Before we get back to voting power and the details, let’s talk about why a DAO—or even an SNS—fits Cecil’s mission so well. Traditional charities and associations face tough challenges. They’re up against complex systems—sometimes greedy, sometimes criminal, often self-interested. When you try to help, the pushback hits hard: threats, blackmail, pressure. It’s messy. We’ve seen it in war zones where food deliveries get stopped, or with anti-poaching teams facing death threats. The examples pile up, but you get the idea.
A DAO changes the game. It’s built differently; it is resilient. It runs on crypto, which can’t be frozen like a regular bank account. The blockchain keeps everything transparent, every transaction, every move, out in the open. No hidden deals, no faked records. Corruption doesn’t stand a chance. Plus, a DAO has no central office to target, no single leader to pressure, no governing body to sway. It’s both nowhere and everywhere, designed to outlast its creators and resist the pitfalls of centralized power. That’s why DAOs feel like the future—made to endure and keep the mission going.
For it to succeed, though, voting power needs to be shared widely, put into the hands of people around the world who care. That’s what we’re working toward, step by step. So, how do we make it happen? How can you all pitch in? Hold on, I’m in transit, not doint it on purpose, swamped with tasks, a bit sick, and hungry. This mess is exactly why DAOs matter not counting on one individuals. I’m grabbing some food now—back in about an hour to pick this up. Talk soon!
Lorimer brought up seven questions, and I’ll address them before wrapping up with the topic of voting power. Let’s go through them step by step:
- How will this be organized?
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The DAO will use the SNS governance structure provided by ICP for its framework.
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Bity/Archery has donated 12 nodes to DEF, giving it resources to maintain the website, develop the Cecil AI software, and cover admin, accounting, and legal costs. We’ll also reach out to other node providers for additional donations.
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ORIGYN has donated 300 million tokens to the Cecil DAO, just like it did for GoldDAO. These tokens will be staked for five years without dissolving, and the quarterly rewards will be sold to fund charity projects. For the first year, we’ll focus on the five projects already proposed, and after that, DAO voters will decide what comes next.
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During the SNS campaign, the Cecil DAO will receive ICP donations. As outlined in the white paper, 50% will go to Akashinga, supporting both the organization and the individual Akashinga women. The other 50% will fund the working capital for Cecil Agent AI. The big vision is for Cecil AI to one day become fully autonomous, deciding how to use funds to help children and animals worldwide. It’s an ambitious goal, but worth pursuing, and the SNS offers the best DAO governance setup to build that foundation.
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Donations can come in anytime, and that’s where the reserve treasury tokens come in. Donors will receive Cecil tokens in return, letting them join in governance. Unlike the ORIGYN rewards, funds from treasury donations will go to charity projects chosen directly by DAO participants, whether in crypto, cash, or other resources.
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Bity, an early contributor and donator, will assist by converting crypto to cash or handling legal aspects of money transfers, including on and off ramps for fiat. I say “to its legal capacity” because we might need to navigate KYC/AML requirements here. Bity has shown its expertise and commitment already in the past as explained in my first part, when it took action during THE DAO…
I’ll answer the rest of Lorimer’s questions one by one and finish with how voting power ties it all together.
- Where will the funds go?
• The funds, or “energy,” as I like to call it—will first go to Akashinga, Cecil AI, and the five projects outlined in the white paper. Later, DAO participants can add other projects as they see fit. - Will the funds be converted to fiat before going to the charity?
o It depends on how the recipients, whether individuals or organizations operate. Probably yes in some cases, but not always. - Who will manage this ?
o Bity will take the lead initially, handling conversions and transfers. Over time, we’ll add other reliable financial intermediaries to support, keeping the process flexible and reducing reliance on any single point of failure - How can DAO participants trust that the funds reach the charity?
- This is where it gets exciting. We’ll use Web3 solutions like ORIGYN or DECIDE AI to handle identification and certification, ensuring transparency and confidence in the process. May be there will be other solutions, lets start…
- How can the DAO be sure the recipient is a legitimate charity?
- Like I mentioned in point 5, we can use existing Web3 solutions and delegate a complete due diligence to trusted third parties. DAOs need to figure out how to connect with the real world, we can’t just upload everything to the cloud, right?
Developers and coders need to get this: we’re still in a physical world, so let’s find efficient ways to channel the DAO’s will and energy transformed it in physical action RWA, the A not for asset but I would call it Real World Action;)
- Concerning the who is behind I made it clear in the first part…
Now lets speak about voting power and governance, I need a tea break though…
About Governance and Voting Power
We’re setting up Cecil DAO differently from other DAOs. We’re not relying on a community fund, we already have donors. ORIGYN, one of our contributor, is giving 300 million OGY (worth $1 million USD) and gets 25% of the voting power. The DEF Foundation gets the other 25%. But let’s not forget that 94% of token are not distributed and stay in the treasury. This 50% control at the start ensures a smooth launch, not a messy one. We’ll reduce this power as fast we can maximum over the next 18 months, it must be diluted rapidly otherwise it would be a point of failure to have any entity or group in charge or it could be targeted by individuals, group or even government, with bad intentions.
Here’s our plan :
- Over the first 18 months, we’ll cut ORIGYN and DEF’s voting power to 12.5% each. We’ll share it with trusted groups, individuals, charity organizations, universities, and other academics who want to join. We need motivated people who care about the mission, not money, so we’ll take time to find the right ones.
- We’ll do an airdrop to people with an 8-year non-dissolving ICP neurons. They’ve supported the ICP family, so they deserve to receive tokens in this first AI-powered humanitarian DAO.
- We’ll swap tokens with other DAOs that share our goals and want to join us. Other DAOs could come with ideas how to promote Cecil, games or other actions could be created, we are open to everything as long it benefits the one who need our help
- As mentioned above reserve treasury is big and matters a lot. Future donations will bring more tokens into the voting pool, which will further reduce the starting power of ORIGYN and DEF.
We hope this explains who we are, what we’re doing, and how we’re doing it. We’re proud to be part of this historic project, which will get noticed beyond ICP. We’d love for you, Lorimer or Tim, to join us actively and help keep things transparent and engaged from the start.
I have found a old pic of that famous moment when we signed the creation of Dfiniy Foundation the 25th October 2016
Thanks for putting so much time into your responses, genuinely. I’m afraid they haven’t addressed my concerns. So I will personally vote to reject, but I wish you the best of luck.
If this proposal gets rejected by the wider community (which I believe it should do - but probably wont), I don’t think there are many things that would need to change for it to be spot on (i.e. sort out the developer neuron VP issue, and get the narrative straight about preventing corruption vs your actual strategy for off ramping the ICP to fiat before it arrives with the charities).
Here are some points I’d like to pick up on →
… all the more reason to not have 50% VP in the hands of the ‘developer neurons’. Part of what the community fund achieves is a VP safety net (given that the fund produces SNS neurons with governance power).
What does that mean? Any SNS could use that argument (and it wouldn’t make sense). This is the core issue with your proposal, and you’ve spent a huge amount of time explaining everything but this.
Exactly, and there’s no reason or sensible excuse for it…
The above comment doesn’t line up well with the below comments
I hope my comments do not offend. They’re meant to be constructive, and also to provide voters with some critical sentiment (there’s usually not enough of it)
I’ve answered all your questions clearly, point by point. Now it feels like we’re just going in circles. You know we’re here to give, not take. You know who we are, who we help, and how we do it, you have all the facts, plus our past references. Cecil exists solely to do good in this world. So, no, I’m not offended by your questions. But the little girl I know, abandoned on a roadside at two years old, would be. The baby elephant standing by its dying mother, bleeding from poachers sawing off her tusks while she’s still alive, would be. Lorimer, your vote matters because you represent members who don’t have time to read my replies. I agree debate is valuable, and I appreciate you voicing your view, everyone should feel free to speak. I’m not offended, but I’m sad. Not because you won’t join Cecil, but because you could’ve chosen not to vote against us. You could have maybe abstained, sparing Cecil another hurdle in its fight to exist to help the one in need.
For the record, I’m very upset and offended by this comment. You shouldn’t be employing these tactics to guilt trip voters.
I’m a very conscientious person. This is reflected in the way that I vote, as well as in my life choices (I drive an electric car and aim to cycle or walk where I can, I don’t eat meat, and I care deeply about animal and human rights). I gather that you care a lot too, but I don’t trust that this is the case - and I shouldn’t have to (otherwise there’s no point doing any of what you’re trying to achieve on-chain).
You answered my questions, but your answers didn’t contain justifications, as I explained. You have yet again chosen to divert attention from the key points being raised - this time in a rather unsavoury manor.
I see you are using the word “justification” in your sentence, which reveals you might be biased. I think an “explanation” is more appropriate than a justification, and I explained point by point and developed all your questions, it is more about you don’t want to see it. I suspect there are unspoken reasons behind your vote. We’re both free to have our opinions, and I respect yours. Thank you for starting this debate, it’s important for the community. Again, your vote carries influence because you’re not just anyone; you have a responsibility. I don’t agree with your reasoning, or your “justification” do you understand the subtle difference? I’m not neutral either. ORIGYN is giving the equivalent of one million dollars based on today’s price and needs to airdrop and spread out its voting power as describe above, not all at once. If you don’t see how this SNS is different from others, that’s okay, as long as you don’t mislead others. If you’re offended and upset instead of sad like I am, it might be because your ego is hurt. Maybe a part of you, the part that loves animals and nature, knows you could be wrong this time, but you don’t want to admit it. I won’t keep fueling this debate with you Lorimer because what matters most isn’t you or me, but what DEF and ORIGYN can do with the ICP community to create this beautiful and unique project, openly and honestly. In three months, I’d like to invite you for a cup of tea to calm things down. I believe you’re a good person, Lorimer, but I think you made a mistake this time. We all do, I’m no exception.
Gian,
So busy but gotta as a few things as I think you are one of the reasons ICP is on the floor.
You work for DFINITY right? On the boards next to Dom:
And you love venturing into the product layer:
Now we can talk how, why and when you venture into this product layer but it’s been going on for a while
And really you need to get out of it, because people see it, it’s blatent insider trading.
You say to Dom, pump this SNS I’m doing and take a load of the neuron fund we get it.
Currently you are just using charity as a cover but you need to ‘go away’.
As a father, I really appreciate initiatives focused on protecting children. However, I’m unsure about using this name and symbol to represent the DAO (see images). Wishing you the best of luck, and I’m happy to help in any way as part of Seers DAO.
Dear James, thank you for pointing out this misunderstanding. Your comments helped me correct it. I’ve never been employed by the Dfinity Foundation or received a salary from them. I was a council member until October 25, 2024, which is a different role, and I have not been paid a salary for that role neither. In 2016, Dominic, Alexis de Vera and I secured the initial capital to create The Dfinity Foundation in order to help Dominic in his this incredible journey he started back then already in 2014. That’s how it started. I’ve always believed in Dominic’s vision for the Internet Computer, which is why I got involved. Please read part 1 carefully, James.
Also, I need to clear up a few things: ORIGYN did not requested fund during its SNS and CECIL is not requesting funds from the neuron fund, you’ve got that wrong. I founded BITY in 2014, Dfinity did not exist yet. So, you’re mistaken, but I hope this doesn’t stop you from doing good work for yourself and the community.
Feel free to visit me in Zurich and show me what you’re working on. In this thread, though, I’ll only focus on CECIL and won’t engage in other topics. Thanks for understanding.
Dear Marcio, as a father, you get how crucial it is to protect our kids and our planet, just like I do. I believe AI can help, which is why we created CECIL AI. Seers DAO can definitely join the battle with us, you guys are a perfect fit and I’m grateful for your offer to help, let’s connect and meet! Once the SNS is live, feel free to DM me. About the name, I know there are pros and cons, but Cecil the Lion and the Akashingas hold strong meaning for us, so we’re sticking with it.
We all have biases and convinctions that we bring to bear on our NNS votes. Mine is that consistent standards should be applied to SNSs. 50% VP concentrated at genesis is not okay. You didn’t justify this (in my eyes).
Have you applied for the Neuron Fund? I hope not.
Lorimer, I fully understand your point and actually I prefer to have you with a stricto sensu approach rather than an ambivalent one. Lets put it that way if we fail to pass (not asking Dfinity for help), we will adapt our approach to suites more of that the ideal standard from the start. If we pass we will demonstrate to you that within 3 to 6 months we will be the most decentralized SNS, because it is a necessity for CECIL survival. The coming months we will reach to every active DAO for swaping some voting power in exchange of contribution or tokens and all for Cecil, we will reach out Universities and Organisation and transfer our voting power, but we have to do it selectively, this SNS is may be the exception which confirm the rule. Anyway lets meet soon and make peace
No we have not applied for Neuron Fund ! Please read the tread and you will understand…
It’s exciting to see teams exploring newer and newer kinds of SNS DAOs on ICP.
According to the SNS guidelines, we expect projects to be at a more mature stage, with the Voting Power (VP) of developer neurons reasonably lower than what is reflected in this proposal. Given this, DFINITY cannot support a “Yes” vote for this proposal at this time.
That said, we acknowledge that this proposal does not request any neuron fund (NF) contributions, nor does it seem to include any allocation for the team.
In light of these factors, we believe the decision should be left to the community, allowing them to choose whether to accept or reject the proposal. Therefore, DFINITY plans to abstain from voting on this proposal.
Thank you, Lomesh. We’re happy that Dfinity recognizes the unique features of the CECIL SNS and allows the community to decide. If it becomes an issue, we’ll adjust, but we hope now everyone understands the process we’re using to promote CECIL’s decentralization
Hey @Gian. Thanks for all the input you provided on this proposal 135651. It seems like a worthy cause, therefore I voted to Adopt.
However, I wanted to let you know that both the Synapse and the CodeGov neurons have voted to Reject this SNS proposal. Between these two neurons, we triggered the vast majority of the voting power that has voted to reject. The predominant theme for why people voted to reject seems to be that too much voting power is allocated to the dev neurons, but to be honest there hasn’t been too much discussion other than what you have already seen from @timk11 (CodeGov) and @Lorimer (Synapse). There are likely others who question the suitability of Cecil for an SNS at this time, but I don’t have additional comments that I could share from them.
The tally of the Followees for CodeGov is 1 YES, 4 NO, 2 pending.
The tally of the Followees for Synapse is 4 YES, 7 NO, 1 pending.
For what it’s worth, I think it’s highly likely that this proposal will pass now that Dfinity has announced their decision to abstain. They typically trigger about 33% total voting power when they vote (20% owned and 13% follower). The max voting power that is normally cast on this type of proposals is somewhere around 65%. Hence, I believe all voting power that will vote has already been cast and there is a solid enough lead on the Adopt side that any remaining votes are unlikely to flip the vote.