We are friendlier. I just think it is worth noting that this is an open and free market. Users are not forced to use nicp and they are free to unstake at anytime if they feel things aren’t what they want here.
I agree its a free market.
But usually in markets when a transaction happens between party A and party B. Other parties are not effected.
Theres a party C in this situation whose governance voting power and liquidity are both being diluted when only one should be if the transaction between A and B never occured.
Its breaking the economy.
The game theory result is that everyone with liquid tokens should buy nICP but that would be quite bad for the network. In my opinion.
you seem to be avoiding the topic by saying I dont understand, but i do!
I don’t see how liquidity is being diluted. The ICP is being locked while nICP is the liquidity being added for defi usage.
As far as governance is concerned anyone is free to buy a voice in the vote. WTN is a very active dao and we all listen to reasons on voting topics then make choices.
Ok so lets say i have 100 icp. I would like to stake my icp. But theres also a project i would really like to buy with those tokens.
If im a non participant i need to stake my 100 tokens.
Then i need to BUY 100 icp on the open market and invest those in the project.
Or i could cheat the economy and buy nicp with my tokens and invest my nicp in the project
Notice in the second example I didnt have to buy more icp
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Are you judging a project for having its own internal token? Are you condemning a project for being successful and gaining momentum? Have you tried creating competing projects in this situation?
When you spend the nicp you no longer control them or earn apy.
If you’d like to earn apy you’d have to buy another 100 nicp
In short there is no money loop for that
Correct the dao or other holders is getting the APY, the person who invested the nicp in the project retained their liquidity.
Have you heard the expression “you cant have your cake and eat it too!” Well with this financial instrument. You can!
The nICP holder is having the cake (nachos)
The dao is eating it
There is something absurd going on here. The DAO is being condemned because it is a DAO and has its own internal economy.
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They did not retain their liquidity. They spent it.
They will have to buy more icp to get more nicp just like if they staked in the nns.
They retained their liquidity when they made the transaction with the dao.
The dao is getting the yield and sharing it with the holders. Im sure you understand this. IThats the whole point of the project. Again were mincing words.
I am not trying to mince words.
You are saying if you put 100 icp into nicp then spent that nicp, you as the spender retained liquidity. which is not true.
The Forum Is Not a Stage for One-Way Noise
While everyone deserves a voice, what we’re witnessing isn’t dialogue—it’s disruption. Flooding the forum daily with off-topic arguments, strawman attacks, and noise isn’t contributing to the discussion—it’s actively derailing it.
Imagine a room with 200 people gathered to build consensus. Now imagine one person @Mico standing in the middle yelling nonsense from sunrise to sunset. No one gets to speak. No ideas move forward. No one can think straight. Even in the most radically democratic space, this would be unacceptable—not because we’re silencing anyone, but because we’re protecting everyone else’s right to participate meaningfully.
Some of us are trying to build, to understand, to critique constructively. But every thread ends up orbiting around this one troll. That’s not balance. That’s imbalance disguised as neutrality.
Forum admins might be trying to remain impartial—and we get that. But inaction here is taking a side: the side of the loudest person in the room, not the side of productive discourse.
Moderation isn’t censorship. It’s stewardship. And it’s time we start treating it that way.
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I know you don’t like me or how I talk. I just simply point out the facts that are ignored here and engage to explain why things are incorrect. I don’t expect you to enjoy it but the reality is, I am active, I care, and I try to educate on liquid staking when there are obvious topics that are not understood.
Again if you think what I say is meaningless then don’t engage. You have the freedom to not tag me or respond to me just as I have the freedom to post and inform where I see fit.
Mico please stop derailing the topic. This is potentially a serious attack on the NNS.
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Are you nervous because your counterarguments aren’t working? They may not work because they are weak/empty in nature. I’m just now familiarizing myself with the claims of Adam and his circle… and they seem far-fetched to me. Adam is now doing to other DAOs the same thing he accuses WTN of doing. That said, WTN’s actions are quite ordinary and common in DeFi logic. There is nothing new or threatening about it.
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Adam, I have explained to you many times that wtn has many participants. You pose a greater risk holding over 8% direct vp in the nns than an entire dao of members holding 10%.
I see you always talk about free markets and user choice to buy and sell tokens. I suggest you either buy more wtn to increase your voice, and or engage with the community and start taking the governance responsibility seriously within the dao instead of trying to kill the project.
The dao is always open to hearing opinions on votes no matter the history between people. I know I have voted with people that I have had disagreements with prior and so have many others. After all we all want ICP to succeed and grow. Liquidity is mandatory for this to happen.
It’s 6% thank you very much I have some big followers.
YOU CANNOT BUY WTN TO INCREASE YOUR VOICE.
It is gamed so that the founders always have 51%. David Fisher. Tom Serres. Coinbase investors.
Would you adopt a proposal to reduce canister controller power VP to 1% ?
- Yes
- No
0
voters
You had two opportunities to invest. There will be a third. Hopefully you take it seriously now.
It must be strange that there was a dao where a majority of members decided to lock instead of sell.
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Why arnt you voting on the poll mico? Id like to know where you stand.