A Call to Action: Using the NNS for Growth

Some elastic price mechanism might help keep cycle burn rate high enough. Tho what constitutes high enough will always be up for debate. I thought elastic price mechanism was a consideration already, but I’m not sure.

That’s what I agree with u, we need to control balance the consumption and inflation. To maintain it’s almost the same. But Dfinity team ignores , they don’t realize how bad their huge inflation it is!

K via Internet Computer Developer Forum <notifications@dfn.discoursemail.com>于2022年12月6日 周二上午6:34写道:

I think it’s too early for conclusions and rather dfinity should focus their attention to making sure the protocol is solid and able host all the capabilities that were envisioned. This takes time, but luckily we’re in a bear market with a lot of time to build. I think once ICP reaches certain technological maturity and reliability and activity increases, the debate over inflation and cycle rates would be more useful. It’s still very early.

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But inflation is huge can’t wait, every year 40,000,000 release led!

K via Internet Computer Developer Forum <notifications@dfn.discoursemail.com>于2022年12月6日 周二上午7:14写道:

Facebook grew from 1 million to 1 billion users in 8 years. Its usage grew far more than that because it grows faster than users. 1000x times usage growth is by no means impossible, in fact it is the minimum one would expect if the ICP ecosystem lives up to its expectations. Something like Open Chat could easily have 10 million users down the line if technical scaling issues are sorted out well.

I don’t understand why the total number of coins is important which you have repeatedly mentioned. Cardano (very briefly) hit a market cap of over 100 billion (which is what a 100 dollar coin with a billion coins would have) with a circulating supply of over 30 billion coins and a maximum supply of 45 billion, and at the time no NFT or working defi ecosystem to speak of. A 100 billion market cap for ICP is definitely achievable with optimum growth over the next few years. It will need a new bull market, of course.

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It seems you do not believe in the potential of crypto. No wonder you do not believe in the potential of ICP. Well, you can invest in Web2, then, good luck.

Hi @Inch_Deen few folks flagged your post because of misinformation. As you can see here, the annualized inflation at the time of this post is 4-5% (from a high of 10%): Circulation - ICP Dashboard

The minting curve in fact is not that different from Solana and others: Solana's Proposed Inflation Schedule | Solana Docs

More to the point, I suggest that if you will make comments like this, you please take a look at the facts.

That being said, if you do “not trust ICP”, then it is perfectly ok to not spend your time researching a project you do not trust. No harm, no foul.

Thank you.

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All you said is just based on your guess, no data.
we just talk about the real situation for now.

first, ignore the LP staking, because it depends on people, and finally they will cash out for making money, rely on LP to reduce inflation is meaningless, because they are still exist. you say ETH LP staking won’t be taken out? but ETH staking are counted in total number, the total is still in deflation.
based on several year later, the min 5% inflation of ICP. we neglect the total increase in nex few years, just based on now, it’s new huge inflation number is about 25,000,000 - 30,000,000 ICP release.
we know cycle burns based on token price, if price goes up, means less burned happens. just according the price of now, ICP 4$, after i calculate, it only can burn about 100,000 ICP according to nowdays cycle burn rate situation. We defnitely know if price goes up to 8$, means only hafl of 100,000 can be burned.
now we calculate how much cycle burn rates does ICP needs to eliminate all inflation per year at just price 4$.
30,000,000/100,000 =300, it means the cycle burns needs 300x times than now can destory the inflation every year.
how do u think it can increase to 300x times? no way. let alone the price goes up to 8$, it needs 600x time than now.
ignore the transaction fee, it’s only 0.0001 per time. nearly 0.
plus i don’t add the extra nodes rewards.
tell me how do u think it can be success under such terrible infnite huge inflation?
it seems like a bank keep printing money day by day without stopping.
we all know, neither coin in crypto history like this can be successful.
ETH BTC DOT ADA MATIC and so on, they all have constant total number or be on deflation road.

Diego Prats via Internet Computer Developer Forum <notifications@dfn.discoursemail.com>于2022年12月7日 周三上午1:52写道:

What are you talking about?

If you want more data, here it is:

The annualized inflation rate for ICP from January through November 2022 has been 3.7% ,

I am asking you kindly to please take a moment and read comments and data from your own before repeating your own points.

see the total real number from star to now. 469 million to 500 million. is real ! and what klye calculate contains locked ICP, but those are still exist and will release one day if people want. it’s not ETH, the total number contained LP staking is in deflation.

To be honest, I do not understand your comments above. I am willing to concede there may be some typing or language issues, so just take it as honest feedback:

  • I honestly believe whatever point you are trying to make is NOT coming through
  • i honestly believe staking + node provider minting rate is a secondary issue considering the effective numbers. You may have a point in what the perception of the minting rate is, which people think is high (but is not), and a false narrative which ironically your post further espouses.

Again, I am asking you to please change the title on your other thread to something less inflammatory or I will lock the thread. It is my role to have non-reactionary, non-inflammatory dialogues.

don’t forget the inflation of ICP is min at 5%,but now is higher than that, The total number will become more and more, your cycle burns only can burn 100,000 per year at price 4$, how do u think it will reach 400x times than now which will destory every year’s inflation ? let alone the price goes up the even less burned based ICP XDR designed machnism.
I don’t under stand why your team design such a disaster tokenism.

I really want to leave but i locked my icp when i didn’t know the real bad machnism in ICP tokenism. I lost 90% of my money.
I want to sell and leave but i can’t, because you designed lock machnism only for waiting. If your team open my neuro and unlock my Icp, I will definitely sell all of them even though i loss 90% of my money. and then leave and never come back.
I trust crypto and btc eth, but i never trust icp under such terrible tokeninsm.

To be clear, no one has the power to do this. That is kind of the point.

It would have better if you said that this was your goal to begin with. It might have saved you a lot of time and effort.

All that you can at this point is wait till there’s a way to sell your locked neuron.

I don’t work on Tokenomics but thank you for sharing your analysis.

Although I think Inch_Deen is not interested in a discussion and will keep repeating his one point ad nauseum, I think this response is disingenuous @diegop . Maturity is inflation, pure and simple. Sure, because of some gimmick the final amount of ICP released will vary a bit, but since it can vary up or down the results will more or less cancel each other out in the long term. Not counting maturity as inflation makes monthly inflation swing wildly in @Kyle_Langham’s charts, which means we just have bad data on inflation from here on in, not actual reduced inflation.

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@Denis, I agree that maturity is real inflation. That is undeniable. I think we know what that cumulative maturity amount is every month, though, so why didn’t @Kyle_Langham incorporate that into his charts to get rid of the wild swings? See the thread above the post linked below between @Dylan and me, which I think confirms that the total ICP effectively outstanding right now is about 540 million, less any maturity modulation impact on the 48 million maturity included in that total (i.e., a max. of 5% on this). This also implies that the market cap. of ICP is actually about 540M X roughly $4.25 ICP price = $2.3 billion (excluding the maturity modulation impact). This is much higher than what most investors realize. Even worse, the published market cap. on most investment web sites is about half this amount ($1.15 billion), so many investors are currently buying ICP at a 100% premium vs. the price they think they are getting it for. To me, that is a serious problem and only adds to the FUD noise around ICP.

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It would be easy to express the increase in ICP supply as a result of maturity as a range, especially since the range is narrow. The option is to greatly undercount real inflation and provide a false picture to the community in the process.

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"consider linking voting rewards in some ways to the amount of burned cycles in a given time period (presumably minus the node provider rewards). "

This is the what i highly recommended . And I think no body will refuse this suggestion. It doesn’t harm anyone because rewards are still distributed by nns locking time, at the same time find away to keep balance between huge inflation amount with small burned deflation amount, And everyone should get appropriate rewards just based the development of IC ecosystem. At least it harm nobody, I truly trust this will help ICP pump up if IC continue to develop.

This is an interesting idea. Could this be elaborated, quantitatively?